RADIOApril 04, 2024

Has the PERSECUTION of Christians Begun in America?

Christianity is no longer the dominant religion in America, “Pagan America” author John Daniel Davidson argues. Instead, we have started down the dark path of paganism. So, what will this “post-Christian era” look like? How long until Christians are persecuted in America? Has that already begun? And what can we do to turn this around? John Daniel Davidson joins Glenn to break it all down. Plus, he explains why “the idea that the future will be this secular, woke utopia is totally wrong.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

John Daniel Davidson, pagan America, the decline of Christianity and the dark age to come.

Let me just tell you, there's a couple of signs of hope, and I would like John to address some of this as we go along. First of all, here's Donald Trump two days ago. Cut six.

DONALD: And what the hell was Biden thinking, when he declared Easter Sunday to be Trans Visibility Day? Such total disrespect to Christians.

And November 5th is going to be called something else. You know what it's going to be called?

Christian visibility day, when Christians turn out in numbers, that nobody has ever seen before.

GLENN: Then we also had this come out over the weekend.

Here's Richard Dawkins.

Very famous atheist.

An entrepreneur claiming Christianity, as his belief.

But listen to what he says.

VOICE: I do think, culturally, we are a Christian country. I call myself a Christian. I'm not a believer, but there's a distinction between being a believing Christian and being a cultural Christian. And so, you know, I love hymns and Christmas carols. And I -- I sort of feel at home, in the Christian ethos.

If I had to choose between Christianity and Islam, I choose Christianity, every single time.

I mean, it seems to me, to be a fundamentally decent religion.

In a way that I think Islam is not.

GLENN: Okay. Forget about the Islam part.

The culture of our country is based on Christianity.

So let's bring John in, about pagan America. We are a Christian nation. You believe that.

JOHN: I believe we were. I don't think we are now. I think we're entering a post-Christian era for America and for the West.

GLENN: So that kind of sounds bad. If you listen to Richard Dawkins.

JOHN: Yeah. Absolutely. Richard Dawkins should know better. You can't have the culture without the cult.

You can't have Christianity, as a cultural force. As a force that shapes the public square. And forms the character of the people. Without the actual religion behind it.

People who believe elsewhere, in that clip that you played.

He said, now, I understand that the number that believe in Christians are going down in this country, and I think that's a good thing.

What does he think will happen to all the cathedrals? And all the parish churches. They will turn into mosques. In the case of Britain, or apartments, or nightclubs.

GLENN: So what happens to us?

JOHN: We became pagan. And part of the claim of the book, is that there is really only one alternative to Christianity. Which is paganism.

Now, I don't mean that we will have temples to Zeus and Appollo popping up in Times Square, or a surge of witchcraft, although we are seeing that surge.

What I mean is that our public life, our communal life as a nation and a people is going to be defined by the pagan ethos, not the Christian ethos.

GLENN: Which, the pagan ethos, is what?

JOHN: Nothing is true. Everything is permitted. A radical subjectivity about man, about God. About our natures. About what we can become and what we can do.

And so what determines what public policy should be, or what determines what is right, isn't based on any universal claims about human nature.

Or the image of God. Man being created in the image of God.

It's based on force and coercion.

And that's how pagan societies have always been. That's why they're slave societies.

GLENN: So pagan societies in the 20th century.

Soviet Union. Germany.

JOHN: Post Christian. Yes. Yes. Exactly. Exactly.

And what were they characterized by?

Force. Coercion. A rejection of human nature. Rejection of the idea of human rights.

GLENN: So you're seeing that everywhere.

And this is what led you to the -- the idea that we're -- we're post-Christian.

Is there any way to turn it around?

JOHN: I don't think there's a way to turn it around in our lifetimes. Let's put it that way.

So I don't think that Christianity will be defeated in the end.

I'm a Roman Catholic, myself.

And so I believe in the permanency, of the church.

And of the Christian faith. And victory if the end.

But this is a general racial struggle.

It's been centuries now, that Christianity has been declining in the West, has really accelerated since the middle of the last century. And I don't think it will be turned around in our lifetimes. And maybe not in our children's lifetimes. But there are things that we can do to sort of preserve the flame, and rebuild amid the ruins.

GLENN: Like, what?

JOHN: Transmit the faith to our children, carve out spaces for our churches and communities.

And this is the important part. We don't retreat into those communities.

We find and fight on ground we can win.

That may mean moving out of large cities that are lost. And it also may mean getting involved at the local level to take back your school district.
Take back your library. Take back your city council. And, you know, bring the faith.

The Christian faith, back into the public square. Where it was for most of our history in the country.

GLENN: You know, I've been saying for a long time now.

I think it's really important that -- and I don't like this. Because I don't want to segregate us.

I don't want, you know, two separate Americas. But I think because of the battle that we're in right now, I think it's important to be in like-minded communities, especially religiously speaking. And I don't mean all of the same religion.

I mean, that they are Judeo-Christian, value-driven communities.

Because we -- we -- if you're not in that community, and you are not surrounded by the people with the same kind of ethics and ethos, you could very well be into a community, that goes wrong on either side. On either right or left.

And goes into darkness quickly. Do you agree with that?

GLENN: You also get lulled into a place of complacency. Right? Things are okay. It's not as bad as it seems.

You know, part of the arresting title and subtitle in the cover of the book, which has a burning church on it is to wake people up, to get people to accept, that this is happening. We're living in a post-Christian society.

Christianity is not going to be the dominant force in the public life of America, moving forward.

As it has been, as I said, for most of our history. We're going to become a pagan country. And that means the Christians are going to become a persecuted minority, as they always have been in pagan societies.

GLENN: Well, wouldn't you say we're already really kind of there.

It's not as bad, as it probably will be.

But we're already there. Look, if you're pro-life, you're toast. You know.

JOHN: Yeah. The number of things that you can't publicly disagree with or dispute is growing, seemingly by the week. Right?

You have to accept that Easter is really Trans Day of Visibility. You have to accept that abortion is a positive good, not just safe, legal, and rare. But it's a positive good. It's necessary to vindicate the rights of women.

You can't question gay marriage anymore. That ship sailed a long time ago. So these are things that are part of what I call the pagan morality, or the state morality of the new pagan regime.

And you're -- there is no dissent allowed on these things. Because dissent, tolerance in the public square, freedom of speech. That's a Christian virtue. That's a luxury that only a Christian society can afford.

GLENN: Has there been any pagan countries, that have lasted?

I mean, I know that Soviet Union, 80 years. But has there been any modern pagan, that just don't eat themselves.

JOHN: Well, no. And the thing that always happens to pagan societies, when they encounter Christianity, going back through history. Christianity is the only thing that breaks the pagan stranglehold on a people, across geography, across time, across cultures.

It was the encounter with Christianity, that broke these pagan societies. Because it proposed a radically new way of conceiving of man, and our relationship to God.

And one another. And how we should organize society.

And as Christianity retreats, that paganism. That pagan ethos, that is simmering, just below the surface. Is going to come back in modern forms. In modern iterations. As it did in Nazi Germany.

In the Soviet Union. And there were periods, where there was this illusion of like atheism and of secularism.

We're shedding that pretty quickly. The idea that the future is going to be the secular liberal utopia is totally wrong.

GLENN: I think wokism is a religion.

JOHN: Yes. It's a form of paganism.

GLENN: Yeah, it has its high priests.

You can easily be excommunicated. It has its rituals. It has things you must do and must never do. It's the opposite of Christianity. There is no forgiveness. Even the high priests can't forgive you, unless you bow down to them.

JOHN: And then only maybe.

GLENN: Then only maybe, depending on who you are. It's so clearly a religion.

Why -- why call it paganism instead of wokism?

JOHN: Because I think wokism, just like atheism, or communism, is a species of paganism.

And that when you really dig into what paganism is. And how it works. What we're seeing is a resurgence of paganism in a modern context.

Part of it is a vocabulary problem. We're not going to talk about the dogs in the same that ancient pre-Christian peoples talked about the gods.

But we are seeing a growing acceptance in the idea of spiritual forces.

A movement away from pure materialist secular scientistic kind of thinking, that denies all supernatural reality. That denies all spiritual reality, especially among young people right now.

This admixture of being secular on the one hand, in rejecting organized religion, but being open to spiritual forces. And things like identity that are really beyond reason. Or I would say, a disfigurement of reason.

Which is another hallmark of a pagan society, and we see that everywhere now.

GLENN: So you -- you saying these things. It would be really easy for the left to say, ah! You want -- you're a Christian nationalist.

You want a Christian country, that is run by the church. How do you respond to Christian nationalism?

JOHN: Well, it would be great if it were true. The funny thing about the Christian nationalist debate. As I sort of -- the argument in my book, kind of lays out, is that it's the opposite of the case. We're not becoming a Christian nationalist country.

I don't even know what that he's not.

I think what they mean by that. They don't want Christianity to have any influence on our national life and on the public square, as was the case for our entire history up until the middle of the last century.

But the idea that Christian nationalists are somehow ascendent, or the Christians are somehow gaining power and influence in the United States is a joke.

And when you look at the demographic data and you look at the decline in church affiliation and church attendance, you look at how --

GLENN: It's plummeting.

JOHN: Yeah, on every metric across the board, so it's a weird argument to make when Christianity has never been weaker in the United States.

GLENN: But there is. There are those that do want. I mean, they're very fringe, fringe, fringe.

But they do want a religious state.

And that -- I don't think that's what you would want, when you said, it would be great, if it were true.

I don't think it would be great, if it were true.

I want the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. But I want the people to -- to regulate themselves, and, you know, as -- as Franklin and Jefferson said, the -- the best way to regulate yourself is through religion. Through Christianity.

JOHN: Yeah. Well, you have John Adams' famous line that our Constitution was meant for only a moral and religious people. It's unfit for any other.

But, you know, it really is true, that, you know, Remi Brague, the French philosopher said in the 1990s, talking about Europe.

The European civilization is, you know, a product, not of calculation, but of faith. So you need actual Christian belief.

You know, contra Richard Dawkins. You can't just have the principles.

They rely as their source of vitality on an act of faith among the people. So if we actually had a critical mass of believing, practicing Christians in this country, we would have things like free speech, tolerance, an open public square, human rights, and respect for everybody.

The things that are disappearing right now, under an ascendant and emerging pagan regime.

GLENN: The name of the book is Pagan America: The Decline of Christianity and The Dark Age to Come.

I just want to hold you over for a second longer because it's a little dark.

And I would like to see the hope in all of it. We'll that do in just a second. Let's say you had to spend 1 dollar every second of every hour, day after day, month after month, year after year.

How long would it be, before you could spend a trillion dollars? 36 thousand years!

We're spending and borrowing and printing $1 trillion every 100 days. That is an art form in and of itself for a country to be able to spend that kind of money. My gosh.

What are we buying?

I hope we all get yachts!

It is not hard to see, where we are headed with our economy and the US dollar. Please, don't have all of your money in US dollars. Please, land.

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(music)

GLENN: You know, I hear from people all the time, well, it's never going to get that bad.
It's never been like that. It's never going to get that bad.

Clearly, not true, John.

We're in a different place than we have ever been before. So give me some hope. What can be done?

JOHN: The last chapter of the book, is titled the Boniface Option, and it's a loving dig at Rogers. The Benedict Option, which came out in 2016.

And one of the things that they argued for, was to build up your local communities, your local churches, your home schools, your family communities.

And sort of build an ark to survive the storms to come. And one of the things I push back on a little bit with is the idea that we can just build arks and kind of hunker down and survive.

We have to push forward. And we have to push Christianity out back into the public square, where it was.

And where it belongs. As a testament to the faith.

I think there's hope in this sense.

As people she had their sort of strict material worldview. And are open to the idea of spiritual forces.

There's an opportunity for Christians to proclaim their faith, publicly again. And proclaim it to a people who maybe are more open, than they were a generation ago.

When secular liberalism seemed triumphant.

And it seemed like the future was going to be this atheist, cold, rationalistic world.

That's not the world that is emerging right now.

And so there's real -- there's real battles to fight. With real spiritual forces. And Christians need to sort of put on their armor, and get ready to fight with their faith. By like I said earlier, taking back your schools. Taking back your city halls. Taking back your towns.

But also being able to proclaim the faith, publicly. And pay a cost for it. Right?

There's a long period in this country, where Christians and the state were kind of on the same side. And Christians enjoyed a kind of deference and privilege that they didn't through much of our history.

That's coming to an end, and we need to wrap our minds around it. We need to steel our nerves, and we need to take heart in the truth of our faith and the succor and the strength that it gives us.

GLENN: And that only begets stronger Christians.

Stronger people of faith. When they really have to struggle. That's our problem. We haven't had to struggle with our faith for so long.

Yeah. Sure. I believe in God. You wouldn't say it, out loud, many times.

But now that you're starting to be pushed, you're seeing more and more people, talk about it, openly.

Thank you so much for being in here. It's pagan America. The decline of Christianity, and the dark age to come. John Daniel Davidson

Why Trump Must Audit Fort Knox’s Gold Reserves Now! | Glenn TV | Ep 417

Elon Musk, through the DOGE, is shaking up the swamp and freaking out the Left. While his team is working toward government transparency, one of its next moves needs to be digging into perhaps the biggest financial secret in U.S. history: the real status of the American people’s gold. For almost 90 years, America’s gold reserve at Fort Knox has been locked away, unseen and mostly unverified. The last official audit was over 70 years ago, and as Glenn explains, that audit was hardly comprehensive. So what’s really inside Fort Knox? With global markets shifting and questions mounting, Glenn says NOW is the time for real transparency. He traces the murky history of America’s gold — from FDR’s confiscation to Nixon’s break from the gold standard — and warns of the financial reckoning on the horizon. And he heads to the chalkboard for a simple explanation of rehypothecation and why it matters. Is all of our gold accounted for? And if not, what happens next? As Glenn, Elon, and Sen. Rand Paul (R-Ky.) push President Trump to open the vault and restore public trust, Treasury Secretary Scott Bessent assures Americans on Bloomberg that the gold is accounted for and promised: “Any U.S. senator who wants to come and visit it can arrange a visit through our office.” Sen. Mike Lee (R-Utah), who was previously denied access to Fort Knox after multiple requests, tells Glenn he’s ready to take Sec. Bessent up on his offer.

Davidoff Studios Photography / Contributor | Getty Images

Glenn reacts to the Epstein Files: 'This CANNOT stand!'

Glenn hopped on X to express his frustration and disappointment in today's so-called "release" of the Epstein Files, which seems to have yielded little-to-no new information. Though one thing has been made clear: the swamp is far from drained.

Watch Glenn's reaction below:

Reacting to the so-called 'Epstein Files' release. This feels like internal CIVIL WAR. President Trump needs to fly to SNDY NOW and get to the bottom of this! pic.twitter.com/0Z9ZCQH0Id
— Glenn Beck (@glennbeck) February 27, 2025

Who Hid the Epstein List for YEARS? We Need FULL Transparency!

"Phase 1" of the Epstein Files have been released...or have they? As reporters dig through the files, Glenn asks an equally important question: why has it taken so long? Who in the government and FBI decided to seal the list away for YEARS? Also, will the rich and powerful people connected to Jeffrey Epstein, like Bill Gates, face any pressure, or will they continue to influence how the world runs? Glenn also argues that we need even MORE answers: Why was Benghazi covered up? Who blew up the Nord Stream pipelines? We can't stop here ...

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: All right. So here's what Pam Bondi said last night.

VOICE: You said last week, that you had the Epstein files on your desk. When can we see them? And what's taking them so long to release them?

VOICE: I do. Jesse, there are well over, this will make you sick. 200 victims. 200. So we have -- well over -- 250 actually. So we have to make sure that their identity is protected. And their personal information. But other than that, I think tomorrow, you know, the personal information of victims -- other than that, I think tomorrow, Jesse, breaking news right now, you will see some Epstein information being released by my office.

VOICE: What kind? Are we going to see who was on the flights? Are we going to see any evidence from what he recorded? Because he had all of his homes wired with recorded devices.

VOICE: Yeah. What you will see hopefully tomorrow, is a lot of flight logs. A lot of names. A lot of information.

But it's -- it's pretty sick what that man did.

GLENN: What that man did. Hmm. Pragmatism.

I think we're going to find out today, hopefully, that it wasn't just that man. What that man did was make services available for people of very high places, stature, and power to do the things that only in the darkest corners of depraved minds, actually want to do.

Now, the reason why we haven't seen this yet, is because the truth it holds. It threatens to expose the rot, that is eating away at the heart of our system!

The -- the rot that has been nurtured by those in power, on both sides of the political aisle!

I am guessing both sides are involved in this. And this is not about picking teams. Red or blue. Left or right.

This is before right or wrong, good or evil. This is about justice!

True, equal justice! I don't care who you voted for. I don't care how much money you have. I don't care if you were the president of the United States, or you were a ditch digger.

If you were involved in this, the hammer of justice needs to come to your life! Transparency. This is about the survival of a nation that was built on the promise, that the people, not the elites, held the reins.

The Epstein client list must come out. Every name. Every detail, unredacted, except to shield the victims!

So why? Why does this matter? This is not -- this is going to be feasted on by some as salacious, or, yeah. We can finally get them!

It should not be looked at that way. This is not about one man's crimes. Or really, several people, who committed horrific crimes.

This is about a system that has let the powerful skate free, while the rest of us drown in consequences of their doings!

Names like Bill Gates. If Bill Gates was doing things on those planes and on that island, that are illegal, why is Bill Gates, as powerful as he is?

Why is he designing our food system?

Why is he, a man that is possibly this morally horrific. Why is he anywhere near the powers and the tools, that guide our society?

Bill Clinton? Same thing.

And who knows how many others.

They have been protected. They have been insulated by a machine, that thrives on secrecy!

This is not a partisan issue. Both sides have their hands dirty. And both sides have failed us. Even if they weren't on there, both sides should have been demanding that the names come out!

The Clinton servers, why were they wiped clean?

Why did they use acid to burn all the information off of those servers? What was on those servers? Why the cover-up?

How about Benghazi? Our diplomats were there for some unknown reason. No logical reason for them to be there. Then they were abandoned by our military, when we could have -- when the military was begging, let us go in and save these people. They were left to die. And the full story is still buried, and nobody wants to see.

Why? Were we running guns to what became ISIS. My guess is, and it's a very well-educated guess. Yes!

While that was unfolding. Hillary Clinton and USAID, they were the ones that were pulling the strings in Libya. Remember? They were cackling as the Gadhafi's body was dragged into through the street.

I think he was actually alive for a while. They cackled, we came. We saw. He died.

Grotesque doesn't even begin to cover that attitude. Meanwhile, the Nord Stream pipeline exploded. Now we're told that this is just a couple on a yacht, you know, that took it out for a weekend and blew it. Everyone knows -- everyone knows, it would take someone that has the skill of the United States and possibly the United States alone, to pull this off!

This wasn't a couple of -- you know, a couple of honeymooners that were just out there like, you know what, let's blow up the pipeline. It didn't happen that way. It was the largest environmental disaster in our history.

And not our history. The history of all mankind. And yet, who is talking about that?

Compare the reaction to the Exxon Valdez. Do you remember that?

The headlines. The demand for accountability. We almost had Exxon shut down because people said, it's too dangerous to have oil!

The Exxon Valdez. Remember the lawsuits, the cleanup?

Nord Stream? Nah. Nothing! It's almost as if people in power want us all to forget.

Meanwhile, what are we doing as a society?

I don't think we ever went to the moon! Oh, shut up! Shut up about that!

We're -- that's a distraction! I am convinced that the whole thing about, we are on our way to the moon. Is nothing, but noise to keep us from asking the real, true questions, from demanding the truth on what actually matters!

Who blew up Nord Stream?

Who is on video? Molesting children? In both Hollywood and with Epstein. And who has stopped this from coming out? Who is in bed with our enemies? With China! You know, look at the -- at the anti-Elon Musk rallies.

We now thanks to AI can follow the money. It doesn't -- you know, I used to have a huge staff. It used to cost me a million dollars a year, personally, just to be able to track down things like the Tides Foundation. I'm the only person that ever worked at Fox that lost money by working there. Because I wanted to find the truth. And 20 years ago, it was really hard. You had to do it, almost all by hand!

Now, we can follow the money. The anti-Elon Musk rallies, I told you from the beginning. Those were most likely paid for by you. And they're not real. And I can say that because I know the history of the left.

I know the history of our own government. You can tell because, who are the people protesting? And they're saying that this is grassroots? Nobody cared about USAID. Nobody, on either side. There isn't one -- there isn't one single mom that's taken her kids to school and to the soccer field. That is like, you know what I'm really upset about is USAID?

Yeah. I'm going to go protest the closing of USAID. No. Well, now because of AI, we can just track the money. Hmm. What a shock!

Those were all funded and fake -- fake movements bankrolled by the same crowd that are tied to all of the corruption in our government. And perhaps those on the Epstein and Diddy list. Because I have a feeling, we are going to find the same people, over and over.

Does any of this sound familiar? Like, like we've been here before. Because we have.

Remember Jay Edgar Hoover? Yeah. He wielded tremendous -- he, by the way, was a cross-dresser. Which, who are you to judge?

He wielded tremendous power? How did he do it? He had pictures. He had recordings. He had films.

And he had the shadows. Well, now, we -- we all said, we can't let that happen again. Nobody said anything while he was alive. Because he had secrets on everyone. But the minute he died, they were like, we have to stop that from happening again. Well, now it's not just one man. Now it's an entire elite class. Proving time and time again, they only care about themselves. They don't care about you. They don't care about justice.

They care about them.

The disease that we are suffering under right now, is not just about Epstein or Diddy, or taped up perversions.

Although, those videos do exist, and we know it!

We should ask the question, why hasn't -- why haven't the names been released? Why are we all still in the dark?

The system is built now, to protect, enrich, and cover the crimes of the powerful.

Robert friend, who was an FBI whistle-blower.

He and another friend confirmed before Kash Patel stepped into the offices. They were shredding documents like they were preparing for Charles Lindbergh's ticker parade in the 20s!

Evidence has been destroyed!

Tracks have been covered.

This is what we're up against.

That's why Trump is moving at the speed of light.

He has to.

Because this is a machine, that shields the guilty and mocks the rest of us.

We're a nation right now, gang. We have stage four cancer.

Is that the worst cancer you can have? Or is it stage five? Because we might have stage eight cancer right now. It's all throughout our body of republic!

It's government, banks, media, all of it. The patient, our republic is on its deathbed.

And we have two kinds of family members that are surrounding the patient on the bed.

And they're all saying the same thing. Oh, this is horrible!

Oh, my gosh. Oh. Oh, Uncle Sam, can't die on us now. But in that group of people around the deathbed, we have those who actually love the patient.

Not necessarily what they've turned into. But love the patient. And don't want the patient to die. And then those who have been slowly poisoning his food. And now in the room, slipping a little mix into his IV when nobody was looking. We don't even know yet who to suspect!

So let me show you the path to rediscovery. For our dear Uncle Sam!

Who is not our uncle! And also, wears striped pants. The only people I know that wears striped pants like that, are people in prison!

So let's not get all choked up about how great Uncle Sam is! He belongs in jail himself.

But what he is supposed to represent, is what's really at stake. Really on the deathbed. So let me show us -- show I how we need to cure this, in just a second.

GLENN: Okay. So if you have a loved one in the hospital, and they have stage 18 cancer!

What does the doctor come in and say?

The doctor says, okay. For any chance for this patient to survive. Radical surgery. Chemotherapy.

Radiation. And perhaps even experimental drugs.

Well, that might kill them!

Yeah. The patient is dead anyway!

Any chance of survival? Radical, radical steps need to be taken!

We all know this. Because that's why we hired Donald Trump.

Because we knew it would take radical steps to be able to save this patient. We have to cut the disease out. And we've got to do it now.

You know, the hard reality is truth is our unum. Out of many, one. Not unity. Not our diversity. But truth.

Verifiable, unvarnished truth. That's the only thing that will set us free. But we've been too comfortable, too trusting. Too willing to let the powerful one the show. While we just sit back.

If we want a government that answers to us, we have to continue to step up.

Our rights come with duties. And we've honestly, I have.

Shirked mine for far too long. But did Epstein kill himself?

I don't know! It's really odd with a paper sheet!

And it's more plausible than faking the moon landing, that somebody came in from the Clinton camp and killed him.

Did we blow up Nord Stream? I don't know.

Run guns to ISIS? I don't know.

Spark the Arab spring. Yeah. Topple governments and Colour Revolutions in the past 20 years, all without you knowing it, but you paying for it? Yeah. Even revolutions like in Ukraine? Yeah, about to happen times.

We need answers, and we need them laid all bare on the table. No more secrets. No more shadows. If this was a computer, and it was overrun to this extent, with hacks and malware, you would shut it down!

Wipe it clean, and restore it to factory settings.

That's what we need. A total reboot of the system. Back to its you constitutional roots, where the people call the shots.

So what do you do today?

You wait for that Epstein list to come out. And if it doesn't come out, you politely say, hey, how come. How come it doesn't come out?

You politely ask, every name, no excuses. The Diddy list, the facts on Nord Stream, Benghazi, and everything else. All of it. It's your role as the boss of this government. They work for you!

Can Vivek Make Ohio the Gold Standard for the American Dream?

After leaving President Trump and Elon Musk's DOGE, Vivek Ramaswamy, has decided to run for governor of Ohio. He joins Glenn to lay out his vision for the state, which he wants to transform into a new gold standard for the American Dream. With Trump returning power to the states, cutting federal programs, and slashing red tape, Ramaswamy argues that it will soon be up to the governors to "step up and do their job." He advocates for federalism, state-level transparency, zero income tax, and reduced property taxes, calling them "un-American." Vivek also addresses the technological revolution, proposing workforce training to harness AI for job creation across blue-collar and professional fields. Ramaswamy stresses reattaching work requirements to welfare, promoting independence over government dependence, and fostering a culture of meritocracy and capitalism.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Vivek Ramaswamy.

The Ohio gubernatorial candidate. Strive asset manager cofounder. Also, I would say the cofounder and co-designer of DOGE. And a good friend of the program.

Vivek, how are you?

VIVEK: Good to talk to you, Glenn. How are you?

GLENN: Really good. Really good. I have a lot to talk to you about. First of all, why do you want to be the governor of Ohio?

VIVEK: Well, look, I think that Donald Trump is being doing a great job as US president, but that means that a lot of federal programs are going to come down from Washington, DC, from education to health care, back to the states and to the people where they belong.

GLENN: Hang on just a second.

VIVEK: In my early effort in helping get DOGE off the ground, it's the same thing. Federalism is the way forward to our golden age, and that is going to require strong governors to actually step up and do their job in leading and managing education, for example, in the right way. And so I was born, raised in Ohio. That's where I'm raising my two sons today.

I think it's one of the better sons in the US. But I want Toledo, Ohio, to be the top state in the country, to raise a young family, to grow a business, and to live the American Dream that I have. That's what I'm living.

GLENN: I don't know. It's kind of like conservative porn here. He's -- he's talking about returning the power to the states. And cutting all those federal programs. Oh, yeah.
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GLENN: So, Vivek, the way the government is going, I mean, I hope that DOGE actually does the job. And I hope we finish the job here. We have so much that we have to cut. I mean, trillions of dollars that we have to cut. And return that power to the state. Everybody is saying, this is going to be chaos. How -- as the governor of Ohio, how -- how do you prepare for what is coming, so it's not chaos? What has to be done?

VIVEK: I have to admit, I think the job is going to be far easier for me at the state level, than it is doing it at the federal level, which is a gargantuan project. But I do think that giving taxpayers the transparency, first of all. How their money is being spent. Texting the regulatory state. All that's required.

At the level of Ohio. I think this is actually immediately achievable, in ways that improve people's lives. Right? I'm bringing the American Dream back to Ohio. How do we do it?

There's a lot of red tape in the state. Think about the overregulation, that comes from that bureaucracy, that is the easiest thing we can fix right out the gate. Eighteen to 36 months for a natural gas pipeline. That should be six months or less.

I haven't met a single person in Ohio. I haven't met a single person in the country, Glenn. Who says, we have too little red tape. I have met a lot of people. Especially business owners. Who will tell you, there's too much red tape.

So there's this idea, that this is an academic project. No! It's not just academic solutions to address the deficit number or a debt number or a GDP number. I think these are vital improvements to our economic and social fabric.

So that Little League teams no longer have to shut down, because they can't find the local companies to sponsor them. Because they went to another state with a more favorable regulatory environment. So mom doesn't have to think twice before having a second or third kid for fear of the cost of a bigger car. Because the tax rate is too high in the state. So one of the things I want to do is to drive the income tax down. Eventually down to zero. Like eight other states that have done the same thing. To the property tax burden.

It's your land. Not the government's. It's your money, not the government's. And I don't think that those should be controversial things to say.

GLENN: Hang on just a second. Wait. Wait. Wait. Talk to me about property taxes again.
What is your plan on property taxes?

VIVEK: Well, property taxes in Ohio, this is our problem in particular. Have gotten way too high. So many people are paying as much money on their interest-plus principal repayment as they are on their property tax, and it makes you feel like you're not owning your land anymore. Owning your land feels like you're leasing it from the government which is un-American. So that's exactly what we're taking back.

GLENN: I have to tell you --

VIVEK: It's about bringing the money back to people's hands.

GLENN: I think property tax is absolutely immoral.

VIVEK: It's un-American.

GLENN: It is! I don't actually own anything if it can be taken from me because of tax. I mean, that is like -- isn't that the story of Robin Hood?

VIVEK: It's actually funny you say that. John Locke was one of the progenitors of our country's founding, as you're well aware. It was ownership of private property, which is foundational to the formation of the United States of America!

And so I think we would do well to remember those basic time-tested principles. Capitalism is the greatest system known to man, to lift us up from poverty. We started to apologize for that as well.
No, I want Ohio. And look, I did this for Ohio.

But I say this, because it has a national significance too, Glenn.

I want Ohio to set the standard for the rest of the country, where we embrace property rights. And capitalism and meritocracy. Instead of apologizing for it. And the beauty of our system is that so much of saving our country actually has to come from the level of the states.

Has to come from the people. That's what -- that's what our Founding Fathers envisioned. So I think federalism is the way.

The path to our golden age runs through federalism.

That's why, look, I think saving this country is a team effort. That's why I chose to run for this position, after great conversations with President Trump, with Elon. Frankly, both of them, they came out within hours of my announcement, within an hour to both endorse, and I was proud to receive their support.

And others statewide here as well. But that's because this is going to be a team effort to save the country.

And I do think the leadership at the level of the states. Especially starting a year or two from now, after a lot of those programs have been pushed back down to the states and the people where they belong. I do see a bit of a leadership gap there. And that's a big part of why I was called into this.

And we will set a national standard. We can call it the Ohio standard. We can call it a modern day northwest ordinance. But a conservative state. When governed according to conservative principles, actually. Can be a magnet for the rest of the country.

GLENN: Okay. So I have a serious question for you.

First, an even more serious question.

Every time I've even endorsed any candidate, they always lose. So what is my non-endorsement worth to you, Vivek?

VIVEK: Your friendship is worth a lot to me, Glenn, and I would love to have you in Ohio. We'll start with the Midas Touch! How about that?

GLENN: So I do want to talk to you about something that you are qualified to answer, and I think there are very few people that are qualified. That people trust and know. That can speak on this.

You know, Musk came out and talked about the singularity on Sunday.

And said, we're on the event horizon of the singularity. For anyone who really understands what's coming our way in the next three to five years.

The world will be completely different, in ways that none of us imagine, in five years from now.

How do we -- how do we explain this to the American people, and how do you prepare a state, to be nimble enough, to be able to adapt.

I mean, I really believe, we're at the very beginning here, of a maybe 18 to 36-month change. Where the end of these 36 months, it's going to be entirely different.

And people will have to understand, you either adapt right now, or you're out!

So how do you -- go ahead.

VIVEK: Either you're playing from the front. Or you're shaping that change. Or else, you're going to be shaped by that change.

GLENN: Right. And it's huge. The difference is massive, than we've ever seen before!

VIVEK: Absolutely. So it's interesting, from the position of state leader. As the next governor of Ohio. I want Ohio to be the state where we use AI. To not take jobs. But to make jobs.

And what I mean by that is, there's a lot of focus on a lot of investment across the country and the world, into algorithmic improvement. To actually improving the computational power, driving new AI. That's important. Where I don't think we've invested enough. Is how you apply that AI. How to use that next generation intelligence. To apply it to their respective fields, from health care, to financial services, to construction design.

And there, you're talking about using skilled workers who are already in the state, who don't have to be programming the next generation of AI. We've trained the AI. What I want to do is train the human beings on how to use that AI, and apply it to enhance their own productivity, on their own terms.

GLENN: Yes.

VIVEK: And I think that last part is really important, Glenn. As we're heading to the future. The future is coming, whether we like it or not. Do you want to be dragged by it, or do you want to shape it? And I want to be a leader who helps us, to shape, to harness the power of that --

GLENN: So as governor, what do you do? What do you do to encourage that? To -- well, I have a lot of blue-collar jobs.

VIVEK: Sure. Sure.

So one of the things we do is invest in the workforce, training and education. And a lot of the private sectors are already doing it, by getting out of the way. The limited occupational licensing requirements. Also, I want this to be the state where two things are true, Glenn.

Too often, even on the right, sometimes, we make this an either/or.

I want this to be the state where we say both of these paths are open. I want Ohio to be the top state in the country, when it comes to our universities. For somebody who wants to become an engineer or a doctor or a computer programmer, that's great. That should be open to them here. That goes through a traditional masters degree, and maybe PHD degrees too. And that's great.

That's a good thing. But we also want to be the state, that has two and one-year and even six-month. Or nine-month vocational programs, that train people to be an electrician, or a welder, or a builder, and give them also in their respective fields, even the training needed, knowing how to use AI. How to use that next generation of technology, to apply it to their respective fields. That's what true modernization looks like. So I don't want to fall in this camp and say, say, oh, well, that technological revolution is for somebody else. No. How do we harness the fruits of that, to actually improve our own lives, even in fields that weren't traditionally thought to be necessarily technologically forward fields? I want to change that attitude.

And it's not either/or. It's not one is more elite than the other. We're all elite is the way I look at it. I don't refer to the other professions as the trades. I call it the professions, because that's what they are. They deserve the same degree of dignity and respect, but at the same time, it's not going to be by chasing our past. It's going to be leading us to chase our future. And I do think that requires a new generation of leadership. And at the state levels, a big part of why I'm stepping into what I see in the leadership vacuum.

GLENN: So I think that Donald Trump has ushered in a completely new era that is not even, nobody even begins to understand it yet. I think he is going to be remembered as our first real technology president. And he is changing everything about this system. And it's long needed to be changed. But when it comes to like last night in the House, they passed a budget. The budget really -- I mean, I guess, it's a step in the right direction.

But it's still growing the deficit. And, you know, it has some good things in it. It has some other bad things. You have congressman Davidson from Ohio, that voted against it last night. And part of me is with Massey, and people like that are like, hey. You know what, we've got to cut, cut, cut. How do we get America or the people of Ohio, or the -- the Congress and the Senate to understand, trillions of dollars need to be cut. No more eating around the edges. Trillions of dollars need to be cut. How do we get there?

VIVEK: Well, the truth is. One of the paths is grow, grow, grow. Goes to that spirit, you talked about. That's where I think as the great leader of state, you can at least help in that regard. Whereas, if you're depressing economic growth.

Then your debt to GDP ratio becomes even worse, because your GDP growth rates are lower.

So one of the areas to focus on is just robust economic growth to mass deregulation, through mass unlocking of private sector potential. Through slashing and burning bureaucracy within wherever necessary. And that's one positive side. On the other side, Glenn. And you raise a good point here. I would just say, there are ways to rationalize the budget that actually lifted people up in the process. I'll give you one example. And I will lead the way here in Ohio. On this front. Is reattaching work requirements. To welfare, Medicaid, and other forms of aid.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

VIVEK: I think it is not compassion. It is cruelty to increase somebody's dependence on the government. The way we are going to save our country is not through greater dependence on the government. But independence from it. We're not victims. We have this victimhood mentality.

That the ends justifies that. We are done with that victimhood culture. We got to move on. We're victors, not victims! We don't whine, we win!

You help somebody to stand up on their own 2 feet. That's a great way! You are looking at a lot of the spending in Medicaid. A lot of spending in welfare. That's a great way to bring down spending. Even more importantly, it's an even better way to help those Americans to actually realize the American dream, rather than to be permanently dependent on a state that serves as a ceiling, for what they're able to achieve in their lives. And there, a lot of that has to be done and led at the state level. The federal government has a role to play. I think there's also an important role, to, what does a leader look like, who has the spine to step up and actually do that. Oh, I was tasked to Medicaid right now. That needs to change!

And so that's the way I'm looking to lead, and to bring back that culture of work, end of the war on work.

And that does two things. One is it enhances economic productivity and GDP growth. The other thing it does, it brings down our debt and our spending.

But the third and most important thing it does, is it brings back our sense of national spirit and self-worth and individual self-confidence. For so many who have lost that in this culture of victimhood and entitlement and dependence on the government.

It's time for us to graduate from the era of dependence, and move back to our era of independence! Think about that as a modern day Declaration of Independence from the government. A northwest ordinance, that's centered in Ohio. That's where I want to lead us. And I personally think, Glenn, a lot of politically homeless people. Independents, Libertarians, not just Republicans. Maybe even some orphan Reagan Democrats will come along with us, for this ride, and I think that's a good thing.

GLENN: Vivek, you know, we met each other, maybe five years ago, and I really liked you then. But I wasn't sure I wanted to watch you for a while. I know who you are. And I'm not going to endorse you because I like you too much.

You know, to endorse, but I will tell you, I am on your train. I just think, you would be great for Ohio. And so it's an endorsement, without being an endorsement, because I don't want to jink your candidacy. But best of luck.

VIVEK: That means a lot to me. And hopefully we'll set a good example, and learn some lessons from Texas as well.

GLENN: Yeah, thank you. All right. Buh-bye. Vivek Ramaswamy. Now running for governor.

You can find out all you need to know about him at V-I-V-E-K. VivekforOhio.com. VivekforOhio.com.