Democrats have a new boogeyman: The Heritage Foundation's "Project 2025". They claim that former president Donald Trump has endorsed the program and will use it to turn America into a dystopian fascist dictatorship. But what's actually in Project 2025? The Heritage Foundation's president, Kevin Roberts, joins Glenn to debunk the myths and lies. In fact, he says that the Left has only gotten ONE thing right about Project 2025.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: One of, I believe, the real, true patriots in America.

Is Kevin Roberts. He's the Heritage Foundation president. We have gotten to know each other quite well over the last year or so. And I have tremendous respect for him, his courage, and what he's also doing at the Heritage Foundation. I had a -- a family reunion this weekend, this last weekend. And we had about 30 people -- 35 people here. And, you know, not everybody votes the same way that I do. In fact, some of my family kind of rolls their eyes at some of the things I say. And that's fine.

And we're still family, and we love each other. And we had a great conversation about what was going on, especially after the assassination attempt.

And what came up over and over again, was project 2025. They're making it into a fascistic state, they are going to -- they are going to give the presidency so much more power. And I laughed, and I said, that's not Project 2025. That's -- in fact, that's the opposite of what they're trying to do.

This is something the Heritage Foundation has done every election year for many years, but never to this degree.

And Kevin Roberts is here to tell us about it. Hello, Kevin, how are you?

KEVIN: Glenn, my friend. Great patriot, it's a pleasure to be with you.

GLENN: Thank you. So, Kevin, talk to people who are hearing from the media, that this is nothing, but a way to carve out special exemptions for the president for fascism.

KEVIN: The best way to start. And we'll go into detail. Is to say, it is total projection by the left. I mean, you, perhaps more than anyone in our modern age. Has shown us, that whatever the left has accused our side of. Is actually something they themselves are guilty of.

So project 2025, is actually a corrective to the very thing, the left is accusing us of doing. That is, they are the ones particularly since LBJ's presidency in the 60s take it. Who have accrued all this power in the hands of unelected bureaucrats in DC.

We feel that in every respect. Every industry. Every business. And even in most of us in sort of our everyday lives.

But ultimately, what project 2025 will do is address the problem of the administrative state in DC, being weaponized against the everyday American. It's the biggest threat, as you know, the administrative state, Glenn, to a republic, where citizens vote for a new president, and a new direction. And yet, nothing changes.

In fact, what we will see, is any aspects of project 2025, are implemented. Is finishing of the scope of Washington, DC, and an increase in freedoms. And the presidency and the legislative branch and the judicial branch. All being returned to proper order.

In other words, it really is the -- I think the single best set of policy ideas, about how we go back to the original founding vision as our Founders had it of this constitutional republic.

GLENN: You know, I said to some of my relatives. Look, you and I agree on one thing. I think.

And they did. And that is, no citizen should ever be afraid that the president of the United States, is going to get them.

That this election would put somebody in office, where he could take away freedoms of people he didn't like, or didn't agree with.

That's -- I'm absolutely against that. Because I know it always come to bite whoever did it in the butt. Because they'll eventually get to you. And that's not our system. This ensures that the president, no matter which side they're on, doesn't have that power to get his enemies, or to just rule his way without the consent of Congress and the people.

KEVIN: That's right. And if that kind of abuse and weaponization against the American people, using the administrative state we've seen against the right, the political right, by President Biden, were for some reason to be done by a conservative administration.

We at Project 2025 and to Heritage, to your point, Glenn, would be just as apoplectic. Every one of us, from the far left to the far right, wherever someone is on that political spectrum needs to wake up in this country, and believe that of all entities, the federal government is going to be objective and neutral and fair and just, and equal, in how it treats all of our citizens. And so the real problem that we're trying to address, isn't just the accrual of power since the '60s, in particular.

It is, without getting engaged in hyperbole. Which you know I detest. Addressing the weaponization of the federal government, against individual citizens.

I will give you a quick story. That's a personal reference.

But it's emblematic of how people feel.

I'm as you know, a traditional Roman Catholic. It doesn't mean that people have to agree with that. But that's my religious liberty, and my family's to practice that. We have, over the last few years, those of us in that category. Not just been fearful of, but we know the following has happened.

We know this from the director of the FBI. And the attorney general of Biden's administration. They have targeted faithful, traditional Catholics because we like the Latin mass, as somehow being domestic terrorists.

It's that kind of nonsense, that project 2025 would bring to an end, if the next administration so desires to implement.

GLENN: So has Trump signed on for any of this?

KEVIN: Look, it's informal. The president of course has distanced himself from this, which is I think a smart political move, given how successful the left's mischaracterization of this has been.

Ultimately, though. To your question, great ideas, and great people rise to the top.

And so without it all being presumptuous, which you know I am not, and Project 2025 is sort of designed to sort of be in the background. Those great ideas and those great people, I think are going to be apart of this conversation, once the Trump fans and administration takes office.

So I would, for people trying to make sense of President Trump's comments, his campaign's comments and the project, understand, that we are in the political season right now.

And soon, we will move into the transition, and policy making season.

And I just have great confidence in the policies and people who are a part of it. And think that we will have a great era of good, common sense policy reform. That ultimately, is sort of neither conservative nor liberal. It's just right. And it's just common sense.

GLENN: I will tell you, that I read the website. And we're doing a show on it, tomorrow night.

To go through, what it is. And what it's not.

And if people will read it. I mean, I think the -- I think the media is doing a great service in a way. If people go to the website, and -- and really look up, what project 2025 is. And reads it. I think most Americans will agree with a lot of it. You know, you're -- you're talking about dismantling the -- the -- not the DOJ. But the -- the DHS.

You're returning the component parts to other agencies. You're talking about eliminating harmful regulations that have stifled innovation and small businesses.

More oil and gas leases. Less climate extremism.

No more overregulation of dish washers and gas stoves and everything else, that they said they definitely weren't doing.

I think, Kevin, the idea here is the administrative state has been made into something that can do all the things that they know they can't get past into laws. And that's what's got to stop. These people -- these elites are running these organizations, and they decide what's best. And it never comes to us.

And if we want to change, then we'll change. You can't force us to do that, especially as an unelected official.

KEVIN: That's the key issue. That Congress, of course, is complicit in this by not being forceful enough over the last decades.

GLENN: Big time.

KEVIN: And what it's done, frankly under both Democrat and Republican administrations is create this yo-yo effect of the Democrats and the Republicans issuing these executive orders.

I'm still hopeful enough about this country, Glenn, to believe that maybe a vast majority of us across the political spectrum.

Understand, that's not how we ought to make law. And so what we're trying to do with the proposals that we have in Project 2025, in addition to what you've said, is call for an end to DEI and CRT.

This is something that is vastly supported. Unfortunately, we probably see in addition to all of the aspects of the failure, on Saturday's near assassination.

The effects of that. That that was a higher goal.

DEI for the Secret Service director. Than real competence.

This is the point. Americans understand what is going on. Which is that a small group of people, have concentrated power. They are not elected.

They might be good people. We don't have to get into the personal side of this. But they are people who do not want those of us who are regular, normal people, to go about our lives. It's imperative that people understand, that the very reason the left has spent more money demonizing project 2025, than we've spent putting it together, tells you, it is a threat to their power.

And that ought to excite us, about the possibilities ahead.

GLENN: You know, you talk about in project 2025, something that I haven't heard for a long time.

And that's a flatter and fairer tax code with a 15 percent bracket and a 30 percent bracket. They, of course, will say, this is tax cuts for the rich, et cetera.

But it has shown, math does not lie. It has been shown over and over and over again. No matter what you do with the tax code. The government brings in about 18 percent, total.

And if you bring the tax code and bring it up to 95, people find loopholes. Don't pay their taxes, et cetera, et cetera.

And they still get about 17 to 18 percent, going into the Treasury. So why not do a flat tax, where everybody pays, you know, what's appropriate.

And you don't have all of these loopholes. That would be fantastic!

Chance that that happens?

KEVIN: I think there's a chance. In fact, in some recent interview. The last a couple of weeks.

President Trump has even hinted at that.

Obviously, we will have to deal as I country with tax policy. Because the Trump taxes are up for renewal.

And I think there's an opportunity, depending on the president, the Vice President of course will want to do. We will be of service to that.

Is to insert into that, a flatter system. I mean, I'm old enough to remember, when as a country, ten or so years ago. We were on the cusp of implementing that kind of thing.

This is an excellent example of something that is in Project 2025. That is wildly supported by a majority of people. And it leads me to the following connected point, Glenn. You touched on this, just a minute ago.

Project 2025 covers, literally, every policy issue known to man. It is a menu of policy options. I have not met one fellow conservative whether that's my wife or one of my siblings. Or my dad. All staunch conservatives who agree with 100 percent of what's in there.

The point is not to seek unanimity. The point is to provide a menu of options that represent the popular will, that if President Trump and vice president Vance so choose, there's actually a substantive plan behind that political impulse.

And that actually, I would like to think, for people who are more objective in the political center, or the political left.

Give people a little bit of comfort. That actually what we're trying to do here is have a governing agenda, following the lead of the people who make these decisions. And I think as time goes on, to sum up here, the more we understand that's actually what this project is about. The more we're not only telling the truth. But we're actually kneecapping what has been a last ditch desperation attempt by the left, which can't run on the record.

GLENN: Can you do me a favor? I have about 60 seconds. I just want to run through some true and false. Because these are the things that are being said it. I just want to know if it's true or false. In Project 2025, there is a call to end no fault divorce. True or false?

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Complete ban on abortions without exceptions, true or false?

KEVIN: Extraordinarily false.

GLENN: Ban contraceptions, true or false?

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Higher taxes for the working class?

KEVIN: False. The exact opposite.

GLENN: Additional tax breaks for corporations and the 1 percent?

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Elimination of unions and worker protections? My gosh, look at what they're saying.

KEVIN: I know. So false.

GLENN: Cut Social Security.

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Raise the retirement age.

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: End the Affordable Care Act.

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Raise prescription drug prices.

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Eliminate the Department of Education.

KEVIN: True, my friend. That's the one thing they get right.

GLENN: Love that. Use public taxpayer money for private religious schools, true or false?

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Teach Christian religious beliefs in public schools.

KEVIN: False. We understand it's a pluralistic country. We love those schools. But that's up for people to decide.

GLENN: End civil rights. And DEI protections in government.

KEVIN: Well, we definitely want to end DEI nonsense. But obviously the great thing about project 2025, we're restoring civil rights, if anything.

GLENN: Ban books and curriculum about slavery?

KEVIN: False.

GLENN: Ending climate projections. Or protections.

KEVIN: Well, the ones that aren't based on science, will come to an end. But we certainly understand the value of science, and protecting the environment.

GLENN: I have to tell you, this is why we're doing a whole show on it.

What they're saying about this is incredible.

What it is, it's not. You can find it at heritage.org.

Or go to project 2025. I believe that's project 2025.org.

Kevin, great to talk to you. We'll talk to you again.

KEVIN: Thanks, Glenn. Take care.