Oklahoma has become the first state to put the Bible back into classrooms. Oklahoma State Superintendent Ryan Walters joins Glenn to explain why and respond to critics who yell “separation of church and state” at the top of their lungs. Why wouldn’t the Bible be in schools, Walters argues. It’s the most popular book in history and the key to understanding our founding. So, instead of lying to our kids, he’s giving them access to the primary sources. Walters also gives his take on Trump’s promise to dismantle the Department of Education and his pick of Linda McMahon as Secretary of Education.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: So why do we believe in the underdog? To have

We always root for the little guy. Never count the little guy out. What does it mean? We're battling the giants.

It comes from tasted and Goliath. That is part of our culture. You don't have to believe there was an actual giant, and tasted defeated the giant with one rock.

I happened to believe that story. But you don't have to. But if you don't know that story, you don't really understand the West.

And the Bible is littered with those stories. Almost every phrase, famous phrase that we've ever spilled out of our mouth, over and over again, comes from the Scriptures.

And their famous phrase is because everybody used to know them. Everybody knew the Scriptures.

Well, now nobody does. So you don't really understand the giant. You don't understand the little guy going up against the giant.

You don't understand the reference of, wow, that's a tasted versus Goliath thing there.

They don't know what that means. The Bible is important, even if you don't believe it to be a miraculous book. If you just look at it as the world's first history book, even if you look at it as the world's first history book, as man understood and could explain history at the time.

You can't understand Macbeth. You can't understand Shakespeare. You can't understand our Declaration of Independence if you don't understand the Bible.

And dismiss it. So now Oklahoma schools, the head guy. The superintendent, Ryan Walters, who has been on this program before, has now just dedicated all kinds of money to put a Bible in every school. What does this mean?

You're going to hear all kinds of distortion on this. But we will talk to -- we're going to talk to Ryan right now. And get his take on it.

Hello, Ryan. How are you?

RYAN: I'm great. Thank you for having me on, Glenn.

GLENN: Great. So I want to talk to you about the Department of Ed. In a second. But first, let's talk about what you're doing with Bibles in schools. Why are you doing this? And what does it actually mean?

RYAN: Yeah. Look, the left. I'll give them credit. They've been a tremendous force for the last 40 or 50 years. And, frankly, broader society to believe that somehow our Founding Fathers believed there shouldn't be a Bible in the schoolhouse or there shouldn't be prayer in the school.

But look it's not my fault the Supreme Court in the 1960s misinterpreted the establishment clause. The reality is, absolutely you can have a Bible in school. You should! The Bible is the most read, the most purchased book in American history.

It's more cited in any other book, since the 18th century. How in the world do you teach American history without the Bible.

How do you explain the Pilgrims? How do you explain the idea where the rights came from God? How do you explain Martin Luther King Jr. is a letter from a Birmingham jail.

Where you reference Daniel, Shadrack, Michadrack, and Bendigo.

How do you understand this? And, again, what the left has been able to do is create state-sponsored atheist centers by saying, no.

No mention of God. We're going to distort American history. And tell kids, this country is an evil, racist place.

The state played no role. And so we're bringing the Bible back. We're very excited to put the Bible first in every classroom. It will be understood. And it's a historical context.

To your point, what leftist. You don't have to agree with the Bible. You can be offended. That's all well and good. And that's fine.

But you can't lie to our kids about our history and the influence that the Bible and Christianity played.

GLENN: Right.

And, you know, I can't remember the name of the big atheist. He was one of the biggest atheists around. He said, you will not understand western culture.

He was not a Bible thumper by any stretch.

He was a die hard atheist. And said, the Bible needs to be taught, or you don't understand Western culture.

That's pretty clear.

MATT: That's exactly right. And that's where I challenged, you know, the left on that. Where, okay. Guys, explain the Pilgrims. If you can't mention the Bible and Christianity. Think of how quickly that morphs into a bizarre argument. And like you said, look, again, you have to understand our history, in order for us to continue as a civilization.

Here's the reality. We know what happens as a civilization. When you teach the next generation.

To hate and reject that civilizational value.

It doesn't continue.

Our young people have to understand, this is where we came from.

This is history. This is how we got to where we are.

This is how we became the greatest country in the history of the world. Again, leave it up to individuals to make their own determinations on what they believe, on what they believe the fast forward is.

But you can't even have a conversation about the path forward. If you don't understand the path.

Look, we have allowed the left to dominate and control education. We've got to fight back against that. Look, the key way to do that.

By the way, you can notice it by their reaction. They don't want the Bible in school. They don't want the Constitution.

Of course, the Federalist Papers. They want people reading about them, not reading them.

So they just want to critique from the 1960s about them. We want all those primary sources in the classroom.

Let the kids read it. Let them understand it. Let them come to their own conclusion. But put those great works in front of our kids.

GLENN: So how is this going to go with teachers? Teaching this.

Because I don't want somebody's view of the Bible, one way or another.

I do want it taught, as history. You know, I don't mind praying in school. I don't mind. You know, whatever.

But I -- I don't want us to go the opposite direction, and say, if you don't believe the Bible is the Word of God, then you are just a Neanderthal.

And I don't have any faith in the teacher's unions being able to teach it, without disdain.


MATT: And look, here's the reality with that.

We have to do this the right way. We've already put out guidance that said, listen, you're not to come out here and push your view of religion on to the kids.

Okay? This is a history lesson. This is understanding as a historical context.

Again, we give these examples as our guidance.

And said, listen, you are to teach it in its historical context, in these specific standards. So we've laid out, this is how you teach it. This is where it is. This is the historical context around it.

Again, if we have somebody in there, attacking religion, trying to push that view on kids, they're not going to teach in the state of Oklahoma.
We're not going to tolerate that. You've seen these leftist activists. We've been crystal clear.

You have educational standards. You will educate, not indoctrinate. And if you cross that line, you will have to find another profession.

GLENN: All right.

Can we talk a little bit about what your thoughts are on the Department of Education, and getting rid of that?

How real do you think this is?

MATT: Oh, I think it's very real. I have several conversations with President Trump about it. And I think he's been crystal clear. It's going to be gone. He wants the plan. He wants the road map for it.

Like Linda McMahon is a great choice, the Department of Ed. She has taken on huge endeavors like this before, head-on.

And look, I think what you do, is you eliminate that agency.

It's got to be a top priority from day one. You walk in. You decimate the -- all the jobs programs out of it.

You get ready to fire a bunch of personnel. They would be packing their bags right now. Then we go into Congress, and we don't need this. Why in the world are we doing this?

And if you want to continue some of those programs, you walk around the state to let them have full authority, on how to spend the money.

But no longer do you go to 5,000 nearly employees in DC and let them attach all these strains. All this indoctrination, all of their woke agenda on to our educational systems. It's up to the state.

So, again, there's some ways to do this. They have some options.

One is a block grant. One is to return it to the state. And say, look, you guys make the decisions of where your money goes.

Solve your own problems. It's amazing to me, Glenn. To listen to the weeping and gnashing of teeth from the left.

I'm like, guys, for over 200 years, we didn't have a Department of Education.

We developed the greatest country in the history of the world. Some of the greatest minds were forged in just a one-room schoolhouse, focused on the basics. Right?

So, look, this is a deviation from American history.

The last 40 years from the Department of Ed, and everything has gotten worse.

So their scare tactics are not going to work. I think President Trump has a clear mandate. I think he's focused to dismantle it. Not to play around the edges, but for Ed to be gone. States have the power, and then we will push states to give the power back to parents like we do in Oklahoma. That's where power rests. That's where God intended it, and that's where we will put it.

GLENN: And how fast do you think -- I mean, President Trump told me, if it doesn't happen in the first 100 days, I'm going to have a hard time getting it through.

You know, I got the impression when Linda McMahon goes in. She's for school choice, blah, blah, blah. But do you get the impression from the president, that this is -- shut this thing down, beginning day one?

MATT: Yes, sir. He's been crystal clear, both publicly and privately. I want it gone.

I have laid a marker down, that agency represents -- it's the belly of the beast. It really is.

This is the training ground for the Deep State, right? So no. Get rid of it in its entirety.

I want the thing to shut down. I want the building bulldozed. Like I want it gone.

I don't want any remnant of a Department of Education.

I think Linda McMahon is there to do just that. I think they've been absolutely working for it. It has to happen fast.

President Trump won a crystal clear mandate in this election. And, Glenn, he laid out. I mean, how clear can he be?

That agency is gone. He wasn't like, hey, we're going to do some things. Congressmen will get on board with that. The American people are sick of watching our kids having a woke agenda pushed on them from Washington, DC.

Our Founders would be rolling over in their grave, if they knew that DC was dictating over the summer.

Hey, all states. You have to allow boys and girls sports. Boys and girls bathrooms.

I mean, I couldn't even imagine explaining that to a George Washington or Thomas Jefferson. Yeah, someone in DC made that decision one morning, and tried to tell us to do it.

I mean, it's just -- the American people are fed up, and they've elected Donald Trump to do that. I think he will absolutely fulfill his promises, as what we saw in the first term. I think that agency is gone.

GLENN: When do these Bibles start to go into schools in Oklahoma.

MATT: Today actually. Actually today. We got the Bibles yesterday. We will start moving them into districts today. We are very excited.

And, again, we're going to make sure our kids understand the role the Bible played in American history, as you pointed out. I don't know how you know American history without the Bible.

You can't. So we're very excited. We want our kids to understand the nation's history. And we want them to be patriotic.

We are unapologetic about that, Glenn. In Oklahoma, we want patriotic opportunities. We want them to love this country. We want them to move forward in the understanding that this country will cease to be great, if the citizens don't understand his principles and advocate for those moving forward.

We're unapologetic about that here.

GLENN: You are also, I believe. The reddest of red states now.

Correct?

MATT: We are. We are. All seven counties went for President Trump here. We love President Trump here in Oklahoma.

GLENN: So what has the push back been like, and what are you expecting coming your way?

MATT: So the unions are just losing their mind, of course. You know, and the Democrats are losing their mind. But listen, hey. We have some week-kneed Republicans up here, and I've just been crystal clear with them. We're moving forward. This is a clear agenda that has been mandated by the people. They want the Bible back in schools. They want their schools back to parents. And back teaching patriotism and love of country.

We're going to do it. So weak-kneed Republicans, you better get out of the way.

Because the reality is -- here in Oklahoma. All 77 counties voted for President Trump.

It is America First agenda here. We are full steam ahead. We will be tip of the spear for President Trump and his education agenda. And, Glenn, he's done laying out the most aggressive education agenda in this country's history. Universal school choice nationwide, to a tax credit.

Patriotic education, and no Department of Education, and prayer back in schools?

I mean, this is exactly the plan to move education back to allowing America to continue to be that greatest country in the history of the world.

President Trump laid it out there. We will absolutely be the tip of the spear in making sure all of those things happen. And, again, RINO Republicans move out of the way. The people are so tired of winning elections. And let's play around the edges.

This is a mandate. This is not -- by the way, Glenn, I've told our folks in Oklahoma. This is not a bipartisan mandate. I don't know where this comes from.

All right. Let's go cut a deal. No, no, no, no. It's full steam ahead.

The American people voted for a clear agenda of America. We're enacting it. This is not a bipartisan mandate. It's a President Trump. America first mandates. We are moving forward. Full steam ahead.

GLENN: Are you being considered at all, for any role in the -- in the end of the Department of Education? Because you've done a tremendous job, in Oklahoma.


MATT: Well, I appreciate that. We've gotten to have some great conversations with President Trump's team. Look, I think they did a great job with Linda McMahon. I think she will be incredibly dialed in.

I think she will absolutely lead the charge to get rid of that agency. I think they've cut a tremendous -- every day, you wake up, and see President Trump's appointees. And think, wow, this is fantastic.

GLENN: I know. And the one thing about it is whether you like it or not. They are all revolutionaries.

They are all -- none of them are like -- no. Let's sit down and talk about this.

I mean, they're clear on what they're going to do. And he's putting the fiercest fighters of the big state. Or Deep State in every single appointment.

MATT: Could be more.

Listen, fundamentalist hear it from the president's own mouth. You're hearing it from his personnel decisions. He's absolutely dead serious.

This agenda that he ran on. That he was crystal clear with the American people on.

The American people overwhelmingly voted for.

It's going to get done. He is clear. These things are going to happen.

I believe Linda McMahon was exactly the right choice to come here.

She's only gotten done everything she's ever done in her life.

I mean, she just literally -- hey, what's in front of me? Got it. And just does it.

So it's going to be done.

And again, you've got to have states step up. And that's what we -- we are so excited to work with President Trump and his team. We told him. In Oklahoma, it's going to get done. Prayer will be back in school. The Bible will be back in school.

We will teach patriotism. We will continue to be the tip of the spear on school choice.

Every state has to have school choice. We have to continue to take on the woke left, with an offensive game plan.

We don't play defense anymore. Okay?

For those Republicans that didn't get the memo. We got it in the last election.

If you need it any louder, the American people want action on a true conservative America first agenda. Let's act. The states enact President Trump's agenda. Let's move the country forward.

And show them what conservative principles look like in action. Here's the reality, Glenn. And we know this. They work.

That's where it's full steam ahead, guys. Get these principles in action. Let's get the policies enacted.

Because the people of Oklahoma will see it, and improve their lives. They will see a better school. They will see a better education system, which will lead to a better society.

Which leads to a stronger state and stronger economy.

Oh, you have to do the thing. You can't just talk about -- President Trump is clearly a man of action. He's the man for the times. Look, I think he's very Churchillian. You look at a guy who is doing it alone. He was standing up against these threats. And you have Republicans going, oh, he's too much. You're going, oh, he's not. He recognizes the threats that the left represents. And now the American people have turned to President Trump. He's the man for the hour.

I couldn't be excited.

GLENN: I think you made a great case on Churchill.

Ryan, thank you so much.

This is Ryan Walters. He is the Oklahoma state superintendent of schools, and Oklahoma is putting Bibles back into schools today. Thank you, Ryan, appreciate it.