RADIONovember 29, 2022

Hobby Lobby Founder: THIS is the BEST WAY to run a business

Hobby Lobby CEO and Founder David Green recently joined Glenn in-studio to discuss his new book, ‘Leadership Not By The Book.’ During their discussion, Green details to Glenn the ‘direction book’ his family decided to follow while building their business. He explains why it’s the ‘best way’ to run a business, and he dives into several, important leadership lessons he’s learned along the way…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN:So there's a new book out, it is called Leadership Not by the Book by David green and bill high from Hobby Lobby. Welcome, David, how are you sir?

DAVID: Thank you. It's good to be here.

GLENN: It's good to see you again. First of all, I did a special last night about how the FBI and the federal agencies and the media are weaponizing against Christians as individuals and as business. You were, your fine was how much?

DAVID: Well, they were going to fine me $1.3 millions a day.

GLENN: A day.

DAVID: If I didn't follow their instructions. We got that number by the number of employees we had. It's like a thousand dollars a day per employee. That was a lot of money. 1.3 was what we were looking at.

GLENN: And all you had to do was just offer birth control or abortion; right?

DAVID: They were for pills and prescriptions that we could not provide because we knew it was after the fact that we were taking life and we knew we just could not do that. We had to have that when we signed our next insurance policy and so this was what the government was asking us to.We knew we couldn't do it. As you said earlier there are some things you just can't do. You can't go against your conscious.They were asking us to go against our conscious.

GLENN: You won that case.

DAVID: We did win that case.

GLENN: Thank God you won that case.

DAVID: Right.

GLENN: And that changed the course I think the first real big win for America as we have known it then past.

DAVID: It sure helped us.

GLENN: It did.

DAVID: We didn't know what we were going to do. People would ask me, what are you going to do if you lose this case? I said I don't know what we are going to do, but I do know we're not going to pi for someone's abortive pill. That is what we had decided as a family. In fact we came together as a family. We call ourselves gen 1 and our kids gen 2 and we had all of them in a meeting do you see this any different gen 3, the younger people in our family, and all of us stood the ground and said we're not going to take life for the sake of making profit at Hobby Lobby stores.

GLENN: Let's talk about, by the way I think what you went through and I'd love to hear your opinion on this, it almost seems like the good old days compared to what we're facing now.

DAVID: Things have gone pretty much south on a daily basis here. I can't even imagine what the government's asking us to do and how they're coming against us if you want to be a Christian. So some how or another today we're seen as the haters and yet we have the greatest story in the world about Christ who died for us while we're yet sins. So we're not the haters. We're the ones that got the best and the greatest love story in the world.

GLENN: I have to tell you. I've met so many Christians that will come up to me and say what are we going to do? And I'm like there there's only one thing left to do and it's what everybody dismisses but if we don't turn to God and ask him for forgiveness and help we're not going to survive. He's the only answer at this point. People are like yeah, yeah, yeah, but what are we going to really do? I'm like do you not believe? Do you not believe that the guy who rose from dead, harder trick than fixing our country is not -- people of faith, I'm not sure that a lot of them really truly have faith that when it comes down to it, yeah. Whatever happens it's in his hands.

DAVID: Yeah, but I think there's something we have to do. I think you'll see us, our family, with a lot of other families coming on the program. You're going to see it at the Super Bowl, he gets us. We're wanting to say "we" being a lot of different people that he gets us. He understands all of us. He hates who, he loves who we hate so I think we have to let the public know and create a movement, really.

GLENN: That a different movement. I agree with you on that. There's lot we have to do. But that's one of the most important movements I've heard, if that what the movement you're doing. He loves those who hate us.

DAVID: Right.

GLENN: We have to find a way to love -- it doesn't mean don't stand against it.

DAVID: Right.

GLENN: You've got to be firm and clear on your stance and I'm not moving but I can't hate them.

DAVID: That's right. We have to present the only answer to this, and it's not politics. you've already said it's him, Jesus who died for us, loves us, and until we accept him and know him and his scriptures and his book that he's given us we can settle the problems we have.

GLENN: So you have written a book leadership not by the book. You're the founder of Hobby Lobby which started out, I love the way you began. You started out making frames with your family in the garage.

DAVID: Exact.My boys made seven cents a piece. Today we do 8 billion-dollars so we've come a long ways.

GLENN: I think so, from seven cents.

DAVID: Yeah.

GLENN: You have 12 principles in here and I've highlight ad foo of them, but I want you to just kind of give the overview of the book.

DAVID: Okay. I think people ask me why I write the book and I thing one of the greatest reasons I wrote it is for us to understand we don't own what we have not because I say so, but because the scriptures and the old testament as well as the new testament says that God owns everything. I think as we see what we have is owned by him we're nothing but servants. When I say nothing but, I would rather be to serve and to be, to take care of what God has given us. Wealth is a curse and how do you handle the curse. That is to be someone that takes what god has given us and know how to handle it.

GLENN: I think we used to understand that concept a lot more. We were country that had great welt. We helped, we helped each other, wear always the first on the scene. And now, I mean, it's, that's kind of like government does that. We just have this, we're just not the same people.

DAVID: The government's done too much and that why sometimes we've backed off where we should not have backed off. We want to make sure what we do with our profits really make as difference.

GLENN: Let's go through some of the principles that I'd like to talk to you about.Build for the next 150 years, not just the next generation. I don't think there's people, I think there's lots of people that are just building for tomorrow, not even the next generation. This is more Chinese in your thinking, explain.

DAVID: I think it's also thinking about what we're doing in our lifetime. What are we doing that doesn't matter a hundred years from now. If you get to thinking and drilling down on that you want your life to be something that eternal and not just temporal. That's what we're doing there. We're making sure that our children come along and serve the Lord and also have the same priorities you do. That is to have Hobby Lobby going on forever if possible and being ministry to those that are in need.

GLENN: How do you go from a framing place to everything you sell with that? I think there's a lot of people, they separate I want to talk about family too because you talk about this separation. They separate God and their faith from their business. They'll come up with all kinds of excuses that, you know, I gotta do what I gotta do. We gotta do business.

DAVID: Right. I don't know had you do it without trying to find the book. This book is called Leadership Not by the Book, but hopefully is by The Book. I really don't know how you do it without following The Book. Because it gives us so much -- our creator has given us a book that really will help us.

GLENN: What are some of the business decisions that you had to make that, you know, on the surface were nuts that regular business people go now but you just had assurance, I know this is what He want me to do and it will work out?

DAVID: I think one of those things is how we treat our employees. I sense the Lord just gave me a; the holy spirit, you're in Changer of these people. I'm putting you in charge of these people. Now you're saying what does that look like? It looks like they need to go to church on Sunday you gotta close on Sunday. It looks like you gotta open 66 hours a week maybe your minimum wage at to be 18-dollars an hour. Maybe you ought to have 7 different chaplains to help the people in need that have different problems. I think it looks like that lin of these things by the way are biblical but it's also good for business. We are very, very profitable, we have no debt --

GLENN: People would say, because I know you write about it in the book, people say how can we get to, you know, 16-dollars an how and you're like we're getting up to 18.50 an hour, what are you talking about? And everybody will say, as I know, I've been around business my whole life, people will make the argument you can't overpay. You can't, you can't make your hourly wage that high because you won't be able to afford it. It will jack prices up.

DAVID: When we first started we just tried to survive so you need to understand that. It was just surviving. As we tried to follow The Book, which there is what ebb other book do you want to guide your life by, there's only one book that of God, the rest of them are man, there's only one and he's given us a book, a direction book. When you follow it I can't tell you a better way to run a business than following the book and following things I think would be pleasing to our Lord.

GLENN: Tell me how, faith is one thing, but talk to somebody who doesn't necessarily have the faith just about how the principle of paying your employees, doing all of the things that you do, how do they convince somebody who doesn't necessarily may have faith but not your kind of faith.

DAVID: Yeah, my kind of faith believes that God's word is where we're going to be best in our life and everything we do. He's given us a direction. Our creator gave us a direction book. If you don't have faith, why doesn't it look good to take care of your people and they take care of yours if you don't have faith at all? How does that not look good? How is what we're being told in God's book, how does it look wrong? He seems to make common sense and that to care for people if you really want them to care for you. So people know by the way who Hobby Lobby is before they knock on the door for an application and because of that I think we get the very; very best people that are out there. People that have a work ethic, people that have integrity. I think that one of the secret sauces is just to have great, great people.

GLENN: It is, it's weird too, as somebody who is a conservative and a religious person, that I was, I can't remember what city I was in but I think there was a Michael's and I didn't know there was a Hobby Lobby. We go into the Michael's, it was just not good. We were like we gotta find Hobby Lobby. It was like this little island respite like I know things are safe here. I know things are the people are going to be nice, nobody's judging, I don't have to have any kind of stupid societal rules. It's nice. It's nice.

DAVID: You know who you are when you're in our stores. You hear beautiful Christian music, every department has something that glorifies our Lord. If you come in, in front of the store and there's Bibles and good Christian books. We have a miniature Christian bookstore in the front of out stores.

GLENN: You are breaking every rule of business.

DAVID: Right, right.

GLENN: You know?

DAVID: It's okay.

GLENN: No. I know. If you were just a business person I think you would us a booking and in say you're going to be a nice niche store you'll never be Hobby Lobby. And it's just amazing.

DAVID: Yeah. We're proud of what God has given us. By the way, I give the glory to a lot of great, great people. We have just a lot of great people. Our officers, by the way, average over 25 years. We have people that stay with us, they love it, they love it because they know they're doing something other than just doing something to make the owners rich because that's not what they're doing.

The Book of Enoch: Did Extraterrestrial Beings DESCEND in the Days of Noah?!

The Book of Enoch tells a story the Bible only hints at: A story of heavenly beings who descended to Earth, took human wives, created hybrid giants, and unleashed forbidden knowledge that corrupted the world before the Flood. Glenn Beck and researcher Timothy Alberino break down how the ancient Hebrew worldview explains the Watchers, the Nephilim, the origins of demigod myths, and why Peter and Jude referenced Enoch directly in the New Testament. From extraterrestrial terms in Scripture to the cosmic “family of God” and the divine rebellion that reshaped human history, this discussion reveals a forgotten narrative that once defined early Jewish and Christian theology. What really happened in the days of Noah, and why does it matter now?

Watch the FULL Interview HERE

Cracker Barrel CEO breaks silence on logo controversy in exclusive interview

Glenn Beck recently spoke with Cracker Barrel CEO Julie Masino about the company’s infamous attempt to change its logo, and he asked the question everyone has been wondering: Why wasn’t she fired?! Glenn previews his interview, which debuts Thursday, Nov. 20 at 6PM ET!

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I was in Tennessee this weekend, and Saturday morning, I go to -- I think store number two for Cracker Barrel. And I met with the senior vice president and the CEO of Cracker Barrel. And we sat down, and we had an interview. And Julie, who has not done an interview since Good Morning America, kind of said, okay. No more interviews, because that didn't go well.

This was her first interview since then.

And, you know, it was weird. Because I got off. I got off the plane.

And, oh. Somebody on the plane said, "What are you doing here?"

And I said, "I'm going to go interview the CEO of -- of Cracker Barrel."

And the immediate response was, "Get her!"

I was like, "Wow. Okay. All right. Thank you."

I get into the car, and the Uber driver says to me, "What are you doing here?" And I said, "I'm going to meet with the person at Cracker Barrel."

"Boy, she really screwed her up. You hold her feet to the fire."

I mean, I've never -- I've never seen anything like that. And, you know, I started the interview with her, you know, honestly. And I said, look, I -- I -- I'm not here to get you. I'm not here to do anything, but ask questions that I think everybody in America wants to know.

Like, what the hell were you thinking?

And I asked her some -- asked her all of the really pointed questions. Rikki, the TV executive producer said, "There's no way. I know you. You're going to soften. There's no way."

And when I got up afterwards, she was like, "Wow. Okay. You didn't -- you really -- you really didn't soften. You know, you asked all of those questions."

Because I thought they were fair. And I told her, "Look, I hate conflict. I'm not here for conflict. I'm not here. I don't need to make a name for myself by giving you a hard time. I don't care about any of that. I just want to do my job and ask you, 'What happened here?'"

And I said, "So I'm going to ask you really uncomfortable questions." And she was prepared. And I think I finally broke through, and got the real answer in the end. I think I got the real answer.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And it came from one of the questions I asked was, I mean, are you surprised, you haven't been fired yet?

And her response was, all telling. All telling. It's a fascinating interview you should watch. It's going to happen, I think Thursday on the podcast.

STU: Because I'm mildly surprised that hasn't happened. You know, like just because -- not because -- I don't know. There's a lot of things she's been accused of and everything else.

But just like, when you have a situation like this, where you're trying a major change and you roll it out a specific way and it does not go well, you know, it's usually -- it's like, when you're general manager of a football team, you go through the process. You evaluate all the quarterbacks. You pick the guy.

And that guy is a total bust, like you usually don't survive it. It doesn't necessarily mean you went through the process incorrectly. But when you miss, usually something happens like that. Does she feel like she missed like that?

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes, she does.

She's a very bright woman. I mean, she ran Coach, you know, the purse place or whatever.
STU: The purse company.
GLENN: The Coach brand. Godiva Chocolates. Taco Bell, the whole -- global. (I mean, she's a Fortune 500 CEO. She's very, very competent. Very competent.

So how could somebody very, very competent make this mistake?

STU: Hmm. Did she walk you through that? How that happened?

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. She see.

And what's interesting is, they brought the senior vice president was also sitting there.

And he has been brought in since.

I mean, he had been there for 30, 35 years.

And really good guy. And he was one of the voices that was like, while that was happening, like, you guys. Hey, everybody upstairs. You shouldn't be doing this.

It's a bad idea. And so after they were like, "Hey. You know who was saying this? Let's bring him upstairs." And it was interesting to talk to him, because he's been long before she got there. So he kind of gave the view of, here's what happened before she got here! And here's where she came in.

And here's what happened.

And it's -- it's really fascinating.

I mean, if you want to hear the real story behind it.

And -- and also see somebody -- I mean, just wait until you hear her answer on -- I mean, it was so powerful and so honest. When I said, are you surprised you haven't been fired yet?

It was a fascinating answer.

STU: How many pancakes did you --

GLENN: Podcast on Thursday, I didn't eat any.

STU: You went to Cracker Barrel headquarters, and you ate zero pancakes?

GLENN: I didn't. I didn't. It was very difficult to not order the pancakes.

STU: You're the type of guy who gets pancakes by mistake. What do you mean you've got none?

GLENN: I was looking at my wife. My wife was sitting off to the side of the camera. And I'm looking at her. I'm like, she's so beautiful. And I eat pancakes, too many times.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And she's just -- she has to live with this, the pancake-wearing shoes. I'm not going to order the pancakes. The pancakes.

Democrats' latest attempt to tie Trump to Epstein scandal falls flat

Democrats are trying yet again to tie President Trump to Jeffrey Epstein’s scandals. This time, they’ve highlighted that Epstein once referred to Trump as “the dog that hasn’t barked.” Is this proof that Trump is in the Epstein Files…or is it actually evidence that he was a whistleblower against Epstein? Glenn and Stu discuss…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Now, Jeffrey Epstein is back in the news today. Could we just for the love of Pete release everything that we have, so we can move on! From the Jeffrey Epstein thing.

Here's the answer: No.

Even if we release everything that we still have, this is going to go on for the rest of our lives.

It will always -- and probably, into our children's lives.

Do you know, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the reason we never went to the moon.

It's going to happen!

It's just one of these conspiracy theories, that will never, ever go away.

Why?

Because no one was honest about it in the first place. Once you start to lie, you lie once -- once! If you're a very honest person, you will lie once. And then people are like, what? What?

Why would he lie about that? What is going on?

He's not like that. But if you're the United States governor government. You already have no credibility whatsoever!

Stop lying to the American people.

Just stop it. You know, I said something a minute ago. One of the reasons why you're hearing lies is because it works to the advantage of a Colour Revolution.

You know, there are reasons why people are lying to you. Some of it, they're just dirtbags and they're liars. Some of it, they're politicians, and so they're liars.

Some of it, however, a good deal of it is, we lie, because we know it causes damage to the credibility of this entire system.

We know it does damage to the culture of America, and we are here trying to destroy the culture of America because we want to try something new. And the only -- you won't vote for it. So the only way we can get America to change and do something entirely different, that they will never vote for, is just to cause chaos and disbelief in everything!

So as I said a minute ago, you know, it's not the news. Many times, it's a reflection of a plan! And when it comes to the Epstein thing, this is absolutely a plan. The way this thing has been played out. Democrats are completely against bringing anything out against Epstein.

They don't want to do anything about it. The media. Do you remember the ABC anchor that went into a commercial break. And she was like, you know what, I've got to tell you, Epstein. You know, we had the goods on him. Dead to rights.

Clinton. All of it.

And we were told, pull it.

Remember that.

Remember that, gang?

They pulled it at ABC. I think they fired the person who tried to -- who released that video.

Or tried to fire that person. I think they were working either at CBS or whatever. That person was in trouble for releasing that behind the scenes tape.

They had no intention of it. Now, everybody wants the Epstein tapes. Wait a minute. You didn't want them when Biden went in. And you could have said something, Democrats. And you could have released it all.

And, you know, it's funny. It is just so full of stuff about Donald Trump. Then why wouldn't they release just that?

Why wouldn't have the Democrats released anything in the Epstein file?

You're telling me, we've got to find something on them. Hey. I've got the Epstein files. Yeah, yeah. We've got to find something on it.

I have got some information here about Epstein. Him and Epstein, they were fooling around. Yeah, shut up for a second. Is there anything at all, that we can construe and manufacture about his banks?

I know!

He's got a vet signal between his bank and the Russian bank. I've got stuff about the Epstein.

Come on! If they had stuff about the Epstein, they would have gone to the stuff about the Epstein files.

They don't have anything, they don't have anything.

Now, let me speak directly to conservatives. They're not going to release anything about the Democrats, because they had the Epstein files.

Do you think that -- let's just say, I'm not even going to name names. Let's just say the most powerful people on the earth. The most powerful people with powerful connections, to government.

They knew their names were, you know, there on little, you know, guest books at the island, or whatever.

You don't think they called in some favors and said, "Hey, I need that -- can you remove that?"

You don't think that there were people that were like, "Hey. You know what, we'll remove that."

"We need $100 million from you, to help out on this campaign."

I mean, whatever it is, those names are gone too! They're gone! How do I know this?

Because the government is completely dishonest! That's how I know that.

But, anyway, now, Donald Trump.

STU: You don't think anything of interest would be in these files?

I mean, I think we've already seen some stuff of interest in the emails, no?

GLENN: Yeah, I think there are stuff of interest. I don't think there's going to be anyone at a very high level that is going to get -- that's going to be like, holy cow. Look, here's pictures with him with a 14-year-old girl!

That's not going to happen.

STU: Right. Somewhere that stuff, at least at the upper levels, not there.

Now, here's what is interesting: The timing of the release of a few documents last week. The Democrats released some documents.

And they released them, and at the same time, that Johnson were saying, by the way, we are going to expedite the releasing of everything.

So there's no reason to leak anything. But the Democrats decide to leak some stuff. They like a memo. And in that, oh, my gosh.

Look at what was said. What was said in that memo. Well, it was said, you know, the only dog that hasn't barked is Trump!

Well, what -- what did he mean by that?

He's keeping it quiet. All of these things. All of these innuendos and everything. Well, now we know, from the guy who wrote the book, all the president's meeting. Donald Trump and the making of a predator, that guy came out this weekend and said, no, no. That's not what he meant.

What did he mean?

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(music)

GLENN: So Barry Levine comes on. And he's on MSNBC this wreaked.

And he's asked, so tell me, I mean, we've seen this email between you and Epstein. What did he mean that the to go that hasn't barked is Trump. What do you think he's referring to?

Okay. What was he referring to?

I think Epstein is referring to the fact that he believed that Donald Trump talked to Michael rider who was the Palm Beach police chief in 2004. And began the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.

So, in other words, he was the whistle-blower!

Yeah. But he's got all kinds of stuff in his -- in Jeffrey Epstein's books.

He's the whistle-blower!

The one thing you don't do is blow the whistle, when you know you got fingerprints all over the dead body. And the handgun that killed him!

You know what, I think you could find that hand gun, in this alleyway. Your fingerprints are on it. Man, why would you blow the whistle?

The suspect, he said, I suspected that Jeffrey Epstein was saying, he was 75 percent there.

Believing that Trump might have been the whistle-blower at the time. He believed it's 75 percent.

Now, how do you release something.

I mean, if you think things will be released. That will get Donald Trump. Why would you release that?

Where after two days of it being out, the guy who was part of that email, who hates Donald Trump, is like, yeah.

That's not what it means. It means he was whistle blower. Jeez.

STU: That is interesting. And I will say, you know, it is -- amazing that that's what they released. And chose to release.

That's the same email, by the way, that you're mentioning. That they blacked out the name of Virginia Giuffre, which they did intentionally. Because she has said that he was nothing, but respectful. And was never with any of the girls at all.

In not only her book, but also in testimony, under oath.

And the other one, that they released, which said, Trump -- he says, of course, he knew about the girls, was the other big one that they released. Which they left the -- well, they didn't leave it out. They just hoped you didn't focus on the next part of the sentence, which he says, that of course, he knew about the girls, as he asked Ghislaine to stop. Which would indicate, even if he was aware of this, which I don't think this had anything to do with the sex stuff. I think this was about him taking them.

GLENN: No. It was about poaching his girls from Mar-a-Lago.

STU: Right.

GLENN: The employees. He knows that we're poaching these girls. It doesn't mean he knows what they're doing with them. Stop taking my employees!

Okay. Now, if you suspect he's the whistle-blower and he knew you were taking employees from him, you know, in retrospect, you know, looking at it later, you go, oh, man, he's the whistle-blower?

But he also knows about the girls.

He knows we were taking them.

Does he know what we were doing with the girls?

I mean, this does not hurt Donald Trump. It helps Donald Trump.

STU: What about the one they released from Jeffrey Epstein. Where he said, I've met some very bad people, and none are as bad as Trump.

I mean, what if they come up with bad comments from Jeffrey Dahmer about Donald Trump? What will you say then? I mean, this is so dumb.

GLENN: I've eaten some bad eggs in my life, but I would not eat Donald Trump. I'll tell you that right now.

'House of David' Star REVEALS Story Behind TV’s #1 Biblical Series

Amazon’s House of David has become the #1 show on Prime Video, and today Glenn Beck talks with Michael Iskander, the actor bringing King David to life in one of the most powerful biblical series ever produced. Michael shares how fasting, prayer, and years of preparation shaped his performance, why David’s flaws and redemption resonate so deeply with viewers, and what really happened behind the scenes with Goliath, the sheep, and the shepherd who taught him lessons he’ll never forget.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I've got somebody on, who is in just an amazing, amazing show from Amazon. House of David. If you haven't seen House of David yet, you have to. Do you remember when-like biblical movies. I mean, they were good in the '50s. And then they got really, really bad.

And then all through the '70s and '80s and 2000s. They were horrible.

And then all of a sudden, they got really, really good?

This someone amazing. This is as good as the Jesus. What is the Jesus one?

Chosen.

It's called House of David. It's on Amazon, and we have the guy who portrays David. Michael Iskander on with us.

Michael, how are you?

MICHAEL: I'm good. What an introduction. Thank you for that!

GLENN: I mean, it's really.

Come on. Was there any time, that you thought, oh, man. This might -- I hope they do it right!

And then you saw the finished product, and you were like, wow! This is good?

MICHAEL: Yeah. That was -- you know, I try to keep my head down, and, you know, it's -- it's not finished until it's finished.

And season two is coming out. You know, I'm just going to be hearing the response of how this show is really affecting people.

GLENN: So can I talk to you about Goliath?

Because Goliath is portrayed really as a giant. Not just a big guy. He's a giant.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

GLENN: Talk to me about that.

MICHAEL: Well, I'll tell you what, when I first met Martin.

He was -- I went to -- I went to the gym with him one time.

And I -- I knew, I'm going to get, you know, my stuff. So I was prepared for that.

And -- and he made me workout for two and a half hours. And I thought that the workout was done. And he was like, no. There's another half. And, man, he -- Martin is a really dedicated man. And he just -- he pushed me to the edge, when it came to working out.

And, you know, when it comes to his role with Goliath. He's someone that really just put all the effort, both physically and emotionally to really portray that part, as best as he can.

GLENN: How long did it take you to learn the slingshot?

MICHAEL: Three days. It wasn't too bad.

GLENN: Well, I heard you had problem with the sheep.

That the sheep were -- they were not helpful.

MICHAEL: The sheep -- well, the sheep were actually really interesting.

I remember when we first started filming, they -- they put me in sheep training classes.

Because when I get on tape. They have to make sure, that I'm not -- you know, I'm not going to get attacked by one of the sheep. And I'm comfortable around them.

The sheep. First day I show up to this training, and she painted me. And you would think that the guy who plays David, you know, would think of his sheep.

GLENN: No. I don't. I don't. I don't think that's natural. You're an actor. I don't know if that's -- yep, well, they picked me because I'm good with sheep.

MICHAEL: I should get classes from you.

GLENN: I don't know.

MICHAEL: But, no. I mean, it really -- spent a lot of time with the Shepherd.
And he was giving me some really amazing lessons.
He saw that I was having trouble.

And he said, you know, you should stick next to me. Because this sheep, when they see you with the shepherd, they'll know that you're with me.
So they'll never leave my side.

GLENN: It's amazing.

MICHAEL: I want you to spend a lot of time with me. And I he said, oh, okay. And he said, I want you to know another thing: A bad shepherd is a shepherd who is behind the flock. And so you, you're going to be a good shepherd. You're going to show them. You're not going to let them lead you.

You're going to lead them, and you're going to be in the front taking risks and showing them the path.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MICHAEL: And he is saying this, I think -- I think I'm getting more than just a sheep lesson here. It really helped in terms of understanding who David was as a person. And then his relationship to Christ.

And why -- why David was chosen as king.

GLENN: Is it true that you fasted, before the audition? I mean, you're a Broadway guy.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Yeah. I sent in the first audition. I was really excited about it.

And it was a dream of mine for a long time. You know, one of these dreams, that you don't tell anyone. And you don't think it will ever happen.

GLENN: To play David specifically? Or to be --

MICHAEL: Yeah, to play David. To play David.

GLENN: Really?

MICHAEL: And because I was inspired by the Chosen.

And I wanted to maybe do flashback scenes with a young David, or something.

When I got the audition, and they originally said no. I thought, oh, that would have been a good opportunity.

GLENN: Hmm.

MICHAEL: And I got another audition. I called my mom. And I said, Mom, this doesn't happen often. Can you believe it? She said, Michael, calm down.

The one thing I need you to do. I need you to fast, and I need you to pray.

I said, yes, ma'am.

A week later, I was having lunch with Jon Erwin. And he -- it kind of took off from there.

But, yeah, fasting and prayer.

GLENN: You know, I'm friends with.
I went to school with Jim Caviezel. And I can't remember what grade he was in. Maybe fifth grade, I think. But he went into church, and all by himself.

And he prayed, and he made a pact with God. Let me -- all I want, Lord, is to play you in a movie some day, and I will live my life honorably to be able to be ready, but I want to play you.

And so he told me when Mel called, he was like, yeah, I've been waiting for the call. It's an amazing thing.

MICHAEL: Wow. I didn't know that story. That's beautiful.

GLENN: Yeah. What do you think it is about the story about -- this was the number one show -- number one series on -- on Amazon -- on Amazon Prime this year.

What is it about the series that you think is connecting?

MICHAEL: You know, I -- I think it's different for everybody.

But I'll tell you for me.

The reason why this show means a lot to me, is because, David points us to Christ.

And -- and David is -- is a person.

He to me, is the embodiment to what it means to be human.

And to make mistakes. And find forgiveness.

It's a complex, long story.

But he was a man that -- that -- he's known as the man after God's own heart.

So for people to see that example. To see, to see the man that God loved so much, that Jesus himself was -- son of David.

I think that's what -- they see the Holy Spirit in the show. I mean, that's what I see.
And that's who I do it for.

GLENN: It's -- it's -- it's amazing to me, how -- with the exception of one, the Bible -- every single hero is so deeply flawed.

And David is so good, so good, and then, you know, becomes really, really does one of the worst things I think I've ever read in the Bible. I mean, just really bad.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

GLENN: Are you going to play -- do you have any idea, assuming the ratings are there, how long of the story you're going to tell?

MICHAEL: I really don't know. I mean, we're just trying to get to season two right now in the release.

Hopefully, pray for us, that we can get to season three, and we can keep telling the story.

I don't know what Erwin and Gunn have. What they're picking up. But I pray that we tell as much of the story as possible. I think it's important to see both the good and the bad. Like you said, to see this flawed human being, to see someone make mistakes, and to see them get back up and repent.

And ask for forgiveness. And find grace in God. So we'll see!

Pray for us.

GLENN: You -- I read some place that you were a Broadway guy. And I thought, this career is not over yet.

I mean, are you prepared to always be David?

I mean, the guy who is playing Jesus now. Jim Caviezel said, it took years before he was allowed to play anything else.

And I can't remember the guy who was playing Jesus his whole life. He is Jesus to a lot of people. Are you prepared to this be you for the rest of your life now?

And not, you know, going -- going back and doing other things, if that's the way it is?

MICHAEL: You know what, God has taken me through so much in my life, that I'm sure he's going to get me through this.

And if I'm known as the guy who plays David, I think it's actually a blessing. And I don't know what God has in store, but I trust him.

GLENN: Yeah.

MICHAEL: When that time comes, I will worry about it then. But nor for now, I'm having a great time portraying one of my favorite people.

GLENN: I just have to ask you a personal question. One for me. My daughter wants to be on Broadway. Can you talk her out of it in 30 seconds, please?

MICHAEL: Oh, man, I don't know if I want to talk her out of it.

GLENN: Okay. Well, time for you to go now.
(laughter)
Michael, thank you so much, and we're looking forward -- when does it premiere? Is it this weekend? Is it out?

MICHAEL: Well, episode eight is out on Warner Project on Prime this Sunday. Yeah.

GLENN: Okay. Good. Good.

Well, we'll be watching. Thank you so much, Michael. I appreciate it.
MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Glenn. Have a good one. Take care.
GLENN: You bet. If you haven't seen the first season, you really should see it.

It's really, really good. It's one of those that I started watching, you know.

And I stopped because I was like, wait.

Tania, we should watch this together. And she came home. And so we started watching it, and I think we watched the whole season in one weekend.

It's one of those. It's really good. Season two premieres this Sunday.