RADIOJanuary 09, 2024

How did the government FAIL THIS MUCH on 2023 jobs reports?!

After spending all year boasting about how many jobs it has created, the Biden administration has quietly DELETED 439,000 jobs from its 2023 jobs reports. These revisions mean that almost a quarter of all jobs added in 2023 didn't exist. So, what's going on here? Economic and small business expert Carol Roth believes there are 3 possible explanations: Either this was an oddity, laziness, or the admission of a nefarious lie. Carol joins Glenn to break down what she believes is happening and whether this is a sign that a recession is coming. Plus, she reveals the data that people should be paying much more attention to than jobs reports.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Former investment banker who went legit. Got off Wall Street and started talking about Main Street.

Hi, Carol, how are you?

CAROL: Yeah. Well, Glenn, thank you for legitimizing. I guess that's the right word.

GLENN: Yeah. So I don't understand the job report.

And how you can make a mistake, this massive, over the entire year.

CAROL: Well, as Mark Twain -- it's attributed to him, anyway. Said, there are three types of lies. Lies, damn lies, and statistics. And this goes back to how data is collected.

How it is modeled. How it's manipulated.

How it's revised. And why it makes absolutely no sense.

I have seen the -- the different reports, and, yes. There has been massive downward revisions.

Obviously, we just got the first December number.

So only 11 months of last year have been reported.

And ten out of the 11 months, have been revised downward.

The scope of that, I looked at multiple smart people's analysis, it's anywhere from 14 percent to 24 percent.

There's a piece everyone agrees on. There's another piece that I can't tell if people are possibly double counting.

But either way, it's just a massive shift.

And the strange thing here, you expect data to be revised based on how it's collected. But, you know, usually that averages out over time.

You know, maybe it's not a perfect amount. But like in 2022, the revisions, I think it was revised, you know, downward for maybe five months.

Then upward with no revisions.

When you netted it out, it was only off by 66,000. Having ten out of 11 months being revised downward. Is either -- an oddity.

It's lazy or nefarious. Those are your three choices.

Pick whatever your favorite door is.

STU: Okay. So. So. But what I understand is, if you -- if you have to revise. You take that into account. Especially if it's repeated a couple months in a row. You start to change the algorithm. And it's like, no. It's slowing. Things need to be slowed down.

Because that's what we keep seeing. So it's -- it's not unusual, to miscount for a while.
Because you're not actually counting. It is a projection.

CAROL: Right.

GLENN: But if you're doing it for a year. It shows that like you said, you're either lazy or you're trying to cook the books.

Because you should have made those adjustments. And what would account for this, is that we're going into a recession. Is that true?

CAROL: That's one possible interpretation. I think it's helpful perhaps for people to understand, you know, how this data is collected and massaged. Because we have these different methodologies. We have, what was called the non-farmed payrolls, or the establishment survey, which is that number that everyone focuses on.

What they do, is they only look at the payroll records of -- last time I checked, it was just shy of 150,000 businesses and government agencies.

And then they take that and put it into reducible adjustments. And all these different models that come up with this projection.

Then there's an entirely different survey, called the household survey, or the current population survey, which only goes about to 60,000 households.

And they're getting their employment status and the demographic data.

And it's very different. Because in the household survey, they're saying, are you employed?

But when they employ out to the, they say, how many people are on the payroll?

So, first of all, the household survey captures things like agricultural workers. People who are self-employed, which we know is a huge portion of the population. That don't have corporations.

Some other things. The establishment doesn't even have any of that. And if you have multiple jobs, that you show up on multiple payrolls.
You're counted multiple times in that survey.

So the data is bastardized, and I would argue not even relevant to how our country's economy is growing, given the large amount of self-employment we have.

But with all of that, we've seen, Glenn. A record high, almost 8.7 million people. Who are holding down full jobs.

We are seeing a loss and, again, the time period is disputed. But over recent months, of 1.5 million full-time workers. And adding 796,000 part-time workers. So going back to your question of recessionary trends. See, those are things that will make you scratch your head saying, that's moving in the wrong direction. But who is picking up the slack for that?

Well, that is the government. And the government jobs keep getting -- the last three months, like 50,000 government jobs, on average, for the last few months. Like, that's not sustainable.

And those are -- those don't have the same level of productivity. Because they're paid for by our tax dollars, and/or the printing of money.

GLENN: Right. Correct.

CAROL: So all those scenarios don't look great in terms of the trends for the economy.

GLENN: Right.

So we haven't seen the numbers for December, but 216,000 jobs were added.

This has not been revised yet, and 52,000 of those were government jobs.

Which brought us to an all-time high of 23 million employees for the federal government. It's an astounding -- astounding --

CAROL: But what I want to say on that. Is that -- as I said, in December, we just got the first print. We haven't gotten the revision to it. Same thing with the previous periods.

They keep revising that down. That means, not only is it 52 over, you know, 216,000.

But if they revise that down, it means, it will be even a larger percentage, that is government jobs.

GLENN: Correct.

CAROL: And that's what we've been seeing in terms of the trend.

Is that the government, and all of the deficit spending, that we're paying for in terms of inflation in our lives.

You know, is really what's creating the differential.

But what's crazy. Jobs haven't even been the issue.

They keep touting this is jobs. And look how many jobs were created.

Even though, many of them were reclaimed. Not created from when they shut down the economy.

But that really hasn't been the issue for quite some time for people.

It's really been the inflationary pressures. And the cost of living. Which is why so many are even tuned into this. And don't notice. Where we have these massive revisions.

GLENN: I have to tell you, I am in Florida right now.

And specifically, I'm in -- in West Palm.

And it is one of the bigger bubbles, I've seen.

Florida is a bubble in and of itself.

Here in West Palm.

It is.

I mean, there's a guy. I found out at dinner last night. There's a guy who bought a bunch of houses right on the ocean.

He bought $500 million in land. And he's building a 500 million dollar house. And he's not a seller. And, you know, he probably has -- you know, he probably has two or three children. So you can understand this.

CAROL: Right.

GLENN: You're in Florida. Especially in places like this. Boy, it doesn't feel like anything is wrong.

With the economy.

CAROL: Right. So this is the have and the have-nots. And it's part of what makes it so difficult, when you talk about the economy.

Because what we've witnessed over the last decade and a half, is the massive fed and government policy and youth wealth transfer from Main Street America, to the wealthy and well-connected.

So when you go to the West Palm beaches, when you go to the -- you know, these little bubble areas, in Southern California, and what not, you know, the prices of real estate are going through the roof. People are driving McLarens.

You know, it's this crazy display of wealth, that they have want to be through the inflation of the asset. Because there were these massive asset holders. At the same time, that the people, who are on Main Street America, didn't have the opportunity to participate in that upside are seeing their cost of living go through the roof. And not being able to keep up.

So it's really a tale of two different economies. When you average that amount, with this massive wealth. At the top. It looks like things are -- you know, kind of moving along.

And that's why, I don't think that the way that we portray data, is fair or gives us really a great sense of what's happening for most of the country.

And why some people in the Democratic parties seem to be scratching their heads. And going, I don't understand.

This is a fantastic economy. Bidenomics works great, when we know that the middle class is getting crushed.

GLENN: Well, if you're living in the Washington, DC, area, of course, there's lots of employment.

Because the government is employing lots of people.

CAROL: Yes, they are. And they are doing it on the backs of adding more at the time and more inflationary pressure.

That is, you know, been -- really, what we've been paying for quite literally. Particularly over the past couple of years.

So there is this delusion, and it's happening on Wall Street. It's happening in these different bubble areas. That people who are in these areas that have created this tipping of the playing field. That has tilted things in their direction. They're going, this is working great. I don't understand why everybody is complaining. When they have been doing it, at the expense of free true -- fair and true capitalism, that has been impacting the lives of the people who are working and who are the back bone of our economy.

GLENN: So I'm driving in some of these neighborhoods. I was driving by Mar-a-Lago yesterday. And that was from the 1920s. A lot of these homes, that are huge like this, were from the 1920s. And those were the Jay Gatsby. F. Scott Fitzgerald days. And I started thinking.

When did the Newport, Rhode Island, thing fall apart? Was that during the Depression, when people started out like not living like that anymore? Do you know?

CAROL: I don't think so.

Because just being a Jackie Kennedy researcher, and if you think about all the time that -- that their family and the Kennedys spent out.

And the Hammer Smith Farm, where she got married, that whole area.

That was pretty extravagant, and their marriage was in the -- in the early '50s, '53-ish. So I don't think it was at that point in time.

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh.

All right. Well, there was something else that I want to get to. Can we take a quick break?

And then we'll come right back in just a minute. Stand by.

We're talking to Carol Roth about the economy. So I don't know if you saw the Wall Street Journal today. But the headline. Do you have that headline by any chance, Stu.

STU: Don't have it handy, no.

GLENN: Yeah. The headline was, the latest dirty word in corporate America.

ESG.

CAROL: Yeah.

GLENN: It says, following the year of simmering backlash. Political pressure. And legal threats over environmental, social, and governance.

A number of businesses, corporate have shed ESG.

Now they're just calling it corporate responsibility. Is this a win, Carol?

Or is this just a shell game?

CAROL: So I would -- can I answer both? Can I give all of the above?

GLENN: Okay.

CAROL: I definitely think that there is some win. And I think the part that we need to take to heart is that by the noise that you've made, Glenn. And the others have made. And the action that your listeners and others have taken.

And talking about this, and really putting it under a microscope.

Has -- it's given pushback to corporate America. And they're seeing, that it's not only not working. That it's detracting from their businesses.

Even BlackRock. Which we know has been sort of patient this year in the US.

They're laying off a bunch of employees.

Something around 600 employees, mainly in their ESG division because of the pushback.

So I do think, that piece is a victory. But it's kind of like the ant problem, that many of us have in our house.

That, you know, you can spray them. Kill them. In one season.

But they will come back the next season.

So you still have to bring the exterminate out again.

And unfortunately, that's the case with ESG.

It's something that you and I had begun to talk about.

You actually brought to my attention. Were these natural asset companies. That are looking to, you know -- same kind of went.

Bastardize capitalism.

Use corporate money.

Use pension money, to buy control, or management of land.

Whether those be public or private, to try to take them out of productive use. Threatening our food and our land and our water.

GLENN: That's insanity.

They decided to wait on that, right?

They didn't say, no. They're not going to do it.

They decided to wait. The SECC decided. Correct?

CAROL: So they were due with the rule January 2nd, and they have extended the comment period to January 18th. I sent comments. I actually posted them on my Twitter feed.

If anyone wants to, they are welcome to copy and paste and send them in to the SECC.

Or to anyone, whether it be their representatives, whether it be their state treasurers, whether it be their governors.

I know that Marla Oaks, from Utah, who you've had -- one of the key voices against it.

You know, we need more people like that.

Because not only do we need the SECC to say, no. The New York Stock Exchange can't list them. That's just one way that these groups connect.

It doesn't mean that they don't exist. It doesn't mean that they can't go to the private market. Or sovereign wealth fund, you know, privately to try to do this.

So we really do need legislation that says, this is something that needs to go away.

So a little bit of a celebration, Glenn.

But the job isn't done yet.

Banned CNN panelist reveals SHOCKING behind-the-scenes of Mehdi Hasan MELTDOWN

CNN has banned conservative commentator and 1776 Project PAC founder Ryan Girdusky over a joke that the network has called “racist.” But Ryan joins Glenn to expose CNN’s hypocrisy. Girdusky’s quip to MSNBC host, Palestine supporter, and fellow panelist Mehdi Hasan that “I hope your beeper doesn’t go off” was enough to get him removed. But Hasan was allowed to call Girdusky a Nazi?! Girdusky also notes that the other CNN panelists had no issue with constantly telling jokes about white people or comparing Trump to Joseph Goebbels. But there was one decision that CNN made that convinced Girdusky to just speak his mind, even if it meant getting fired …

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Ryan Girdusky. You might have seen him. He was the guy. What did he do two weeks ago. We were on, going, yeah. Well, I think he's right about that?

STU: The problem -- he's a major problem. Because he keeps winning arguments at CNN.

And he's not supposed to do that.

He's supposed to be the idiot foil for the rest of the panel.

GLENN: Yeah. So now he's been banned on CNN. Because they're just after the truth.

That's all they want.

Ryan joins us in just a second or two.

Hang on just a second.

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(music)
Ryan Girdusky is on with us.

He's the founder of the 1776 Project PAC and a political consultant. Welcome, Ryan.

How are you?

RYAN: Good. Thanks for having me.

It's been one crazy 12 hours.

GLENN: I'll bet it was. For people who didn't hear it, let me play what happened on CNN.

VOICE: If you don't want to be called Nazis --

VOICE: You're called. Stop calling --

VOICE: Table.

VOICE: People are sitting there.

VOICE: By me -- I didn't call you an anti-Semite.

VOICE: I'm a Palestinian, I'm used to it.

VOICE: Yeah, well, I hope your beeper doesn't go off.

VOICE: You just said he should be killed.

VOICE: On live TV.

VOICE: Guys, let me just stop.

GLENN: So there's this fake outrage, of you said I wanted to be killed.

And Ryan immediately apologized. Okay. Fine. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. I didn't mean to say that. I'm sorry. It was wrong. But the other guy doesn't apologize to you for calling you and people like you, a Nazi.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: In my book, that's worse than a Hamas member. I mean, they're in the same category. But what's worse?

RYAN: Well, the funny thing, it sounds much funnier in re-listening it than it was live. Because it was going crazy. Well, also the crazy thing was, he also said -- Trump sounded like Goebbels.

Now, I never met him before. I had heard a lot about him. But he was making accusations, that I was calling him an anti-Semite. That I was doing all these things to him. I had never spoke to him before. I didn't even know who he was.

And going on to that show, I decided like so -- so what happens if you don't do cable news, the producers text you all the topics, a few hours in advance. And they could range from people things you know anything about. Things you don't know anything about.

So I was -- so one of the topics they just changed it.

It was two segments on the Trump rally. Because obviously it's the most important thing in the world. They actually scrubbed the thing like war.

So then, we were going on, to do segment at the end, with Brian Stelter about trust and accuracy in the media.

And I just about lost it. And I was like, here's what I'm going to do. Here's what I said to myself, going to the show.

I was going to tell him, you're fake news.

You owe everyone on CNN an apologize for Russia. For Russia gate. For COVID.

For the Stormy Daniels. This is our last episode. Because they will never have me back. After I do what I do.

This was just a throwaway line. Because what happened, I got on set.

The woman sitting next to me. She was outraged. I was speaking to her.

She was making comments.

Like white man. Whole run into the show.

And looked just like -- it freaking irked me. I would never say opposite racial things like that.

But if I did, I wouldn't even make it to the show open.

But it was just like the double standard.

Then I said on the show, that people in the media -- everybody that attended the Trump rally was a Nazi. Abbey said that wasn't true. Totally true.

Abbey has falsely corrected me on things that I said was true, and she said, it was the Ferguson effect.

Which was very clearly -- even though, she was --

GLENN: That's what it was.

RYAN: So, anyway, I did the thing.

It was a throwaway line. Go to commercial. Then throws his mic on the table. Storms out of the place. I'm not going to be on with him. Abbey is like, can you please step aside?

Because Allison was like, he needs to leave. And I was like, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to embarrass. I hope you don't get in trouble from corporate. I told the producer, I hope you don't get in trouble. Because it wasn't very lovely to me. And I'm a professional.

And that was that. I was like, okay. Cool.

And you would have thought, you know, I was responsible of the Hindenburg disaster, the way people are responding to it.

I'm like, calm the freaking hell down. I said to somebody, who by the way, always stands up for terrorists.

You know, or sits there -- and kowtows to terrorists, that -- and terrorist-funded countries, that they are -- that, you know, that it's a joke. Whatever.

Like, grow a pair. Like, I don't know. I'm a man. If you sit there and make a joke at my expense and you apologize, I'm over it in 30 seconds.

I'm not going to go storm off and act like, you know what.

GLENN: Right. So go ahead.

STU: Ryan, people probably don't know a lot about this guy. Mehdi Hasan. You know, is he -- I'm sure you've looked into him, a little bit more since all of this has gone down.

He does seem to be well-known for conveniently taking the side of terrorists over and over and over again. What do we know about what his beliefs are?

RYAN: I don't know him. I genuinely don't watch cable news.

I don't watch MSNBC.

I watched him a lot. I don't watch MSNBC. Unless it's an election where they're losing or all crying on set.
(laughter)

RYAN: So I don't know what he's all about. I genuinely don't -- I Googled him a couple of -- maybe a couple of years ago. He said that nonbelievers are all cattle and animals.

And that gays are pedophiles.

And he apologized. And stuff.

But that's basically all you need to know. Is like where they're coming from.

And I think that he was doing a show with the nation of -- I think it was Qatar.

I don't know.

I don't want to say anything.

He was doing a show with a foreign country, at one point.

He was booted off MSNBC.

Whatever. I don't know.

But literally like, I don't know.

I don't want to sit there and say more.

I can't --

STU: Yeah. Yeah.

It seems like, when you're talking about --

RYAN: It's not great. It's not great.

STU: Right. When you're talking about rhetorical flourish of sorts. You know, you can put your comment and him calling you a Nazi in roughly the same category.

RYAN: Right.

STU: It's an overstatement, sure. You're making a point.

It's a debate. But when someone comes after you, and calls you, the worst -- member of the worst group of people that anyone can ever imagine.

Like it's sort of normal to come back and be a little prickly about the situation.

RYAN: Well, also, the thing is they will never know what it is to be a conservative in the media. They will never. The only Democrat in probably the history of the world, know what it's like to be a Republican is Joe Biden. In the one month that they all sat there and said, you have to get out, and the whole media was against him.

They do not know what it's like to show up at your show, where the hosts are biased. And the guests are biased.

And it's three on one screaming at you constantly. And you're like, hey, I read the statistics somewhere, and it doesn't really matter.

Because what's important is the narrative. That's all they care about. It's the narrative. And the narrative and the narrative.

If you sit there and you shoot against the narrative for so long, it is -- you know, they have to get rid of you.

I don't care. It's not like I was going on CNN anyway.

I do school board elections with the 1776 Project.

That's what I do. This is just like something I did for -- well, three and a quarter episode, if you think about it.

GLENN: You were only on three and a quarter episode?
RYAN: Of Abby's show, and then the other show is on twice.

RYAN: I did maybe five and a quarter shows in like three weeks. All of them went viral.

STU: That's amazing. Yeah. I was going to say, I think every single one of them went viral. I thought you were on all the time, because every single time, I turn on Twitter, you're going viral for this.

RYAN: No. I was on -- I was on the whole network, less than a full six episodes.

And, you know, whatever.

I didn't care. I want to give credit to some person, to the booking person at CNN, who originally talked to me.

They said, they are looking for a Republican. You are a Republican, who will apologize for being a Republican.

It ain't me.

That's not what we're looking for.

You can come on.

I said, okay. Great. I told them flat-out who I was, that's I was very open and honest.

I'm not going to apologize for being a Republican. I'm not going to attack Donald Trump. Not on CNN. My grandmother would kill me.

That is not going to be me. And so like, whatever. That's all fine. And they let me on. So I'm lucky to have the opportunity.

Probably could have handled it differently. But at the end of the day, I'm not a Nazi. And the fact that one guest gets to call another a Nazi. And the other can't flip it in a joke. That was funny, by the way.

STU: Objectively a funny line. It is a little roast comedian. Like we just had this experience with the MSG situation. It's in that category, which they might not like, but objectively a funny line.

GLENN: So can I ask you, when producers called, they said you were a little reluctant to come on the air.

Why?

RYAN: When they called about, what?

GLENN: Coming on the air here.

RYAN: Well, like, listen, I didn't want to -- not that I don't want to amplify the story. I don't think it's a story. In 24 hours, someone will find something else to be outraged with.

I don't -- I went to a party literally like a few days ago. A conservative party, and every four seconds, some stranger I didn't know yelled at me, the Ferguson effect!

And I was like, great. And I'm like, okay, great. Now I will be called beeper for the rest of my life. So I didn't want to talk about this forever.

So I said, okay. I will do a few shows today. And then none after this.

And that will be that. And I was like, listen, I have a moment where I can talk about my PAC. My school board election. And mention it while I'm doing it. And that will be that.

I just don't think anyone really care about it, come in a couple of weeks.

And wait. One other thing, by the way, that other segment that I was on. This is the most insane story in the world.

I was on the segment with the Ferguson effect. The two women next to me. Ashley Allison. I don't remember the other girl's name. We only spoke about five minutes together.

We did a segment. For 25 minutes. Almost a half an hour. The one looked at, the one I don't remember. Her -- she looked at Ashley Allison, right on set, points at me, and says, what's his name?

And she goes, I have no idea. We've been on this show 30 minutes before our names were publicly announced. And didn't sit there and say, oh, hi, nice to meet you. Yada, yada, yada.

Lot of just mean girl nonsense like that. So, anyway, I just wanted to --

GLENN: So the 1776 Project.

Is that the 1776 project that was banned or stopped immediately after Biden got into office?

RYAN: No, no, no. It's a PAC to flip school board elections. We've done almost a thousand school board elections in three years.

We put money directly into school board races. To support conservatives for a myriad of issues. Everything from testing standards to, you know, enforcement of school rules.

To CRT, to the trans issue. There's one school board in Texas. That we literally booked every single seat in.

So we have done this.

We have races coming up in Maryland and Arizona next week.

We have hundreds of thousands of dollars into those races. And we're trying to sit there and to get conservatives elected across the country, to protect kid's public education.

GLENN: How do you feel about the election?

RYAN: You know, I'm nervous. I think Trump is doing well. I wrote something for my Substack, two days ago.

The craziest thing in the world. And this will drive you nuts.

In a 2020, the census admitted that they got the data wrong.

And they gave extra seats, Congressional seats to Rhode Island, Colorado, and Minnesota. Over Texas. Was supposed to get one extra. And Florida was supposed to get two.

If Trump wins the Sunbelt and loses the three Rust Belt states, he will lose the election 270-268. Had they not misallocated those seats, he would have won 270 and 267. So things like that, at this point, playing in my head, driving me crazy.

He will win one Rust Belt state. He just has to win Michigan, Wisconsin or Pensacola. Pennsylvania -- Pensacola.

Now, Pennsylvania. I'm thinking of Florida now.

I think things look good. Republicans are voting like their life depends on it.

Just brace into a little bit more, and we just need to get some independents along the way. And he should win one of those states.

GLENN: Let me ask you: What's your take on the support behind Kamala?

RYAN: I think a lot of it is people who hate Trump. I think a part of it is also the AstroTurf, female empowerment nonsense, that she's just so great.

And I mean, look, she went from being Selena Meyers on beat, to being a girl boss in 24 hours in the media.

Everybody remembers. And this is where they hid her for so long. This is why she's keeping her hidden. She has a billion dollars. It's a lot of money. She has all these unions. A lot of effort. What she doesn't have is a lot of support, but she's harping on this fascism and Naziism thing. Because she's got one group. One group that can put her in the White House. And that is suburban moms and dads. Who are very scared of it. And they don't have to worry about tax cuts. Because they make a lot of money. They don't live in a high crime neighborhood.

Their kids go to good schools. They are insulated in a very comfortable bubble.

A lot of them live in places that look like the 1950s.

It means nothing to them.

But Hispanics. Blacks. Muslims. Jews.

People who have a lot of stake on the line, they're living -- deal with 2020. And act towards.

They're increasingly voting for Trump.

That's why she's harping so heavily. That if you don't do this.

If you don't vote for me. You're a bad person. You're a bad white person.

You're a bad mom. You're a bad suburban person.

You're a bad person. You have to vote for me.

That is her closing methods. I don't know how effective it will. These people all vote. They all vote.

The noncollege educated. White working class. Blue-collar guy out in Pennsylvania

There were 2.66 million of them in 2016, who were not even registered to vote.

A lot have registered since then.

Twenty percent of all early votes Republican, are first-time voters. It's got to stay that way, and it's got to increase.

Yeah, that was the data that was released yesterday.

GLENN: Wow.

Ryan, thank you so much. Appreciate it. Hope we talk again.

1776 Project PAC founder, political consultant, and a guy who should wear this as a badge of honor. Now banned from CNN, for telling the truth and telling a joke.

EXPOSED: How HARMFUL chemicals end up in our food

Why are so many potentially harmful chemicals, including food dyes and ingredients that aren't allowed in Europe, EVERYWHERE in the American diet? From cereal to Doritos, much of the food in our supermarkets contains stuff that is likely causing our epidemic of chronic illnesses. So, why does the FDA allow food manufacturers to include all this? Glenn heads to the chalkboard to expose how the system works ... and it sure looks like bribery.

Watch this full episode of Glenn TV HERE.

Pastor EXPLAINS: Does Voting Go Against Christianity?

Should Christians vote in the 2024 election? Some argue that they can't support either Kamala Harris or Donald Trump. Others say Christians should stay out of worldly politics. But Pastor Josh McPherson of Grace City Church joins Glenn to explain why he has "a fundamental conviction that we cannot be Biblical unless we ARE political." It's time for followers of Christ - both in the pews and at the pulpit - to stand up, speak out, and VOTE: "When the Church goes silent, a culture loses its conscience and government loses its mind and everyone suffers."

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Josh McPherson is a guy I found online, I don't even know how long ago.

And just I love his sermons.

He's a lead pastor of Grace City Church. Founder of Stronger Man Nation, which is a movement to help men get stronger every day in every area of life, and helping dads raise boys to be stronger men, which is one of our problems, in society today. We are teaching everybody to be weak, and helpless. And that is not the way that God would have us to be. Josh, welcome to the program. How are you?

JOSH: I'm very good, Glenn. Thanks for having me.

GLENN: Yeah, thank you. So I have been hearing from a lot of Christians, that are saying, I just can't vote for either.

JOSH: Yep. Yep.

GLENN: And I don't even know how to -- I don't even know where to start on that.

JOSH: Yep.

GLENN: This is so clear to me, that we are not battling Democrat/Republican.

We are truly battling light and dark. Life and death.

JOSH: That's right. Yep. Yep.

GLENN: Good and evil.

So how do you convince people?

JOSH: It's -- it's -- what COVID revealed in terms of our shallowness in thinking, in relationship to our role as citizens in our nation. This election is revealing it at a deeper level.

I think Christians have been misled and wrongly discipled in relationship to their responsibility, as citizens of heaven, to be engaged here, as citizens of earth.

GLENN: Right.

JOSH: And so with bad teaching.

The kingdom of God is spiritual, not physical. Nowhere in the Bible does it ever say, the kingdom of God is spiritual. The closest it gets is Jesus saying, my kingdom is not of this world when he's speaking to Pilate.

And he's not using that as an excuse to disengage from the world. He's using it as an apologetic to lean into the world.

He's saying, my kingdom is not of this world, which means I'm above your pay grade. And I don't have to answer your petty questions. The kingdom of God does not hover, Glenn, a mile above the earth. It lands in our sex lives, in our marriages, in our dysfunctional family systems, in our relationships, in our entertainment. In our food. And, yes, in our politics. When Jesus says, my kingdom is not of this world, what he's saying, is my people have the authority from heaven to step into the broken systems of earth and be salt and light.

The most basic texts of the Bible. Which Jesus explains how to think as Christians.

You're light. Light exposes lies. In darkness. You're salt.

Salt works against the natural decay of sin in the world. And right now, a pastor trying to convince Christians to be salt, while they're still in the box.

GLENN: And people think, that that adds flavor. No. It stops corruption.

It stops the corrupting of the meat.

BIANCA: That's exactly right.

GLENN: That's the way it was used back then.

JOSH: Yeah, there's this demonic gaslighting, that says that Christians should be political.

I have a fundamental conviction that we cannot be Biblical unless we are political. The entire story line of the Bible, is a story of God against governments. Rogue, empiric governments. Tyrannical. Abusive. Heavy-handed, oppressive governments like Egypt, like Persia, like Babylon, like Rome. And the story is those -- because when you remove God from a society. What replaces it typically is that which is biggest and most powerful, mainly government.

GLENN: God calls governments to submit to his rule of law, just like he calls individuals. And it's the church's job to function as the conscience of a society. And when the church goes silent, a culture loses its conscience. And the government loses its mind. And everyone suffers.

GLENN: I can't understand, when we have -- I mean, when we have one party that is putting up abortion vans for free abortions.

I mean, I wouldn't go to a concert that was doing that. Let alone a political party.

JOSH: No. No. No. Here's what I would say to Christians to wrestle with seriously -- I did five sermons to my church. You see them online if you want. GraceCityChurch.com --

GLENN: I'll tweet them out today.

JOSH: Okay. I wrote a small PDF to help people think through three questions. Should I vote? How should I think about politics? And then how should I vote as a Christian. So I can walk through that very quickly.

Should Christians vote? Here's the deal. 40 million Christians didn't vote in the last election. The last election was decided by 42,000 votes. Your vote matters. When the salt stays in the box, the meat rots.

GLENN: Jeez. Uh-huh.

JOSH: When Christians hold their voice back, culture goes into massive decline. Do you people wish the church would have gotten more political when Hitler squeaked through in an election? And 12 years later, 11 million people were dead.

GLENN: And do you know what the church did?

It stayed silent, and then it went into cahoots.

JOSH: The church abdicated its voice. And then aligned with evil out of fear and deception, and millions of people died.

I have a distinct sense that there are millions of people, the over.

Praying to God Almighty that Jesus Christ would wake up his church in America. Because if America goes off the rails, we haven't seen anything like it historically.

GLENN: Oh, I have heard it from a Chinese dissident, that was in prison in China.

Just because she believed in Jesus. She said, what you know we were praying for in China?

We were praying that you would be humbled so you would wake up to who you are.

JOSH: That's right. Should Christians vote? Here's what I would say, God made three spheres of human sovereignty. The family, the church, and the state. If Christians won't lead their home, Satan will.

If pastors won't lead their church, they become synagogues of Satan.

And when it comes to our constitutional republic, we need to almost stop using the word democracy. We don't want a democracy. We're a constitutional republic.

Which means we're guided by the moral absolutes outlined in the Constitution. Then we vote for men and women to represent us.

To make laws that will reflect the values of that Constitution. If we fail to do our duty in this Constitutional Republic, we are failing our children. And we will pass on to them, a social inheritance. That will bury them.

Right? So when I think about whether or not I should vote. If Christians don't -- if godly voices don't rise up, to speak up.

Godless voices will. And we will be held responsible for what happens. Christians need to carry a burden.

GLENN: People don't understand.

JOSH: For what God holds us accountable for.

I look at it like this.

Christians -- and I want to be sensitive to those who are like, well, I don't want to be partisan. Brother, listen to me. Sister, listen to me.

You cannot follow Jesus. And not be accused of following Jesus.

Because Jesus draws lines, and Jesus takes sides.

Look, I haven't asked the GOP into my heart. I'm a Bible guy. I'm a Jesus guy.

That's my lane.

If a political party happens to step into that lane, I am cheering them all the way. If they step out of that lane, I am prophetically calling them to obedience and submission to God's word. So this isn't me cheering on one particular party.

But let's be honest, one political party is explicitly advocating openly for demonic, horrific, perverse sin, and the other is not.

That's the bottom line. That you have to wrestle with.

What I find most Christians. I find very few Christians.

I'm going to vote for -- I hear a lot saying, but I can't vote for their side. But I don't agree.

Here's the deal. You don't do anything else in life. Was your spouse perfect when you married her or him?

No. You married him anyways.

We don't apply the same standard, where you're using Donald Trump to anywhere else in life. So no matter who is running for office, unless it's Jesus. You would have to hold your nose and vote at some point.

So here's what I would say for Christians to consider who are on the fence. Think of politicians in terms of three tiers.

Tier three is in the category of opinions. In this category, we -- we discuss, and we decide.

This is where the Bible is silent on these issues. And this is like, should Taiwan be granted favored trading status.

GLENN: Yeah.

JOSH: Should feds lower or raise interest rates. Should the post office use planes or horses to go to deliver the mail?

I don't know, but let's discuss. And let's decide.

The Bible will speak to it. I won't stick my nose into it. That's tier three. Tier two is in the category of wisdom.

Okay? We should debate and discern. The Bible speaks to it. But not clearly, how we should go about it. We agree on the goal. But we debate. Have the means. Should we care for the poor?

Yes. We should all agree on that. How do we do that?

Let's have a good debate. Let's pull each other on the extremes, walk in the middle, find the path. We can robustly disagree and debate and then go out and have a beer afterwards.

GLENN: Honestly, that's where we were at one point in our nation.

JOSH: That's Reagan and "Tip" O'Neill. Right?

Where it's like, no. Yes. What? Are you kidding me? I'll buy you a drink.

GLENN: Yeah. Because they had the fellow in common. They vehemently disagreed on how to accomplish it.

The goal was the same.

JOSH: That's right. There was a like-minded shared mindset for life. So what's happened now.

And most Christians are working from that framework. Tier three or tier two politics. It's opinions or it's issues of wisdom, which makes them feel uncomfortable to speak prophetically to it.

Here's the problem. There's a third category. Tier one.

And tier one. If the first -- the third -- the second is to have wisdom.

Tier one is, this is the realm of obedience. This is where we declare and divide. This is thus saith the Lord kind of things. Okay? Where the Bible has spoken clearly to it.

And to discuss -- we don't discuss and debate stuff. We submit to God's word. And we say yes, God, and we obey. These are issues. The sanctity of life. The sanctity of marriage. National sovereignty.

The moral law of God. The rule of law.

Religious freedom. Jurisdictional respect. These are the kinds of things, are the grid through which we think as Christians, where God is clearly and plainly without stuttering spoken, where we must say, thus saith the Lord. Not because it's our opinion.

Because of what we're calling the culture to submit to themselves God himself. Right? When we get into that category, tier one.

A Christian is obligated, I believe to engage. Here's the problem. In politics past, most of the ticket represented tier three and tier two.

And so Christians were reticent to say, thus saith the Lord. The Fed should lower their interest rates.

I agree. Don't stick your nose where God doesn't quote clearly. What's different about this election is almost every issue on the table. Representative on the ticket is a tier one issue, thus saith the Lord. And if the church does not step and up speak boldly through this moment, the vacuum we create will be filled, I believe with the godless and the demonic. Then we will be responsible for having been silent, in a moment where we needed Jesus to speak up.

GLENN: So there are two things that come through my mind, almost every day.

One, we will be held responsible for all of -- are these God's rights. Not ours.

We are put in charge to protect them. Or to elect the government to protect God's rights for future generations.

JOSH: That's right.

GLENN: If we lose these rights here, it's not just here.

It's the entire world could be cast into darkness. And slavery.

And we will be held accountable.

What did you do? And say, well, I just couldn't vote for either one.

It's not going to be an acceptable answer.

JOSH: That's right. Think about the moral dilemma, some Christians are having, about who to vote for right now.

It's nothing. In comparison to the moral dilemma, you'll be facing. If we have an openly rogue demonic evil government. That is using the force of law, and military, to -- to make you disobey, God's law. You will have much bigger moral dilemmas to face then, better to deal with these little ones. Hold your nose and vote.

Rather than, do I need to stand up and do something more than just pray in this moment, like Dietrich Bonhoeffer had to wrestle with in 1940s.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

The other thing is, when people say, well, my vote doesn't count.

For the first time in my life, I look at that, as a completely different statement.

JOSH: That's right.

GLENN: That's saying, I'm not going to be held responsible.

JOSH: That's right. That's right.

GLENN: This time. This is like 1933.

At this time, if you don't stand, and it goes awry.

JOSH: That's right. That's right.

GLENN: He's not going to accept, that I just didn't invoke.

Because I didn't think my voice mattered.

In Texas, if you want to vote for a Democrat, it may not count.

You know, here in Texas. Because it will go, hopefully, it will go red. But it does count in your first citizenship.

GLENN: When I think about, my vote doesn't matter. Here's what I think.

No, no, no. It matters, because I'm not voting to appease a candidate or a party. I'm voting in response to God's commands. I'm voting for a holy God.

I'm voting to be obedient to my duty to be an active citizen of heaven. In the current citizen, I'm abiding here on earth.

When I think about that, Glenn, no, I'm voting for the sake of keeping my conscience clear. But before God, so I can look in the mirror and say, kids, I preach sermons. I talk to friends.

I wrote stuff. I joined my friends online.

I did everything I could, to move the needle for the sake of our nation. Friends, don't vote -- if we take this pragmatic approach, well, it doesn't matter. Well, we already ceded the battle. No, no, no. It does matter. It does matter.

If not only for you to say, I will not be shaken and silenced by the lies.

Alexander Solzhenitsyn wrote -- I'm trying to think of it. Live not by lies.

GLENN: So good.

JOSH: And in the essay, he said, look, here's the deal. You may feel small in the face of this massive, tyrannical, totalitarian regime.

But -- but you're not as small as you think. You're only as small as the silence that you embrace.

He said, so if you stand up, they may shoot you in the head of the street, but only you can secede or turn over your freedom. So you can die a free man in the street, or you can live as a prisoner in your apartment. You could be freer in prison. Than you are compromising your values living at home.

And so what he said was, essentially, silence in the face of lies, is itself a lie.

Silence in the face of lies, is to perpetuate, and participate in that lie.

We are in a spiral of silence right now.

Dietrich Bonhoeffer talks about.

Eric Metaxas talks about it.

Which means, the less we speak up, the higher the cost for the ones that do.

GLENN: We're seeing it right now.
Hang on, I have to take a break. We'll be back in just a second. You are listening to Josh McPherson.

I will, on my social media, put out on his sermons on this. Share it with every Christian that you know.

GLENN: We're talking to Josh McPherson, about why Christians need to vote.

JOSH: Yes, yep.

I will say two things. If there are those that are sitting on the fence, I get it. There's been challenging things to figure out, sift through. I understand. Three things within one. This is from many conversations, your vote isn't a Valentine.

You know, oh. I just get the warm fuzzies. That died with JFK.

Right? So like don't vote for warm fuzzies or personalities. Think -- be more sophisticated in your thinking. Think about policies. Personalities will come and go. We'll be left with policies, for the rest of our life. Don't think your vote is a Valentine. Secondly, your selection isn't a sacrament.

So many Christians, well, if I vote for them, they might do something immoral, and then I'm responsible.

No, no. Your vote isn't a sacrament. You're essentially exercising your right as a citizen, to -- to advance people, in positions of authority, that you think have the best shot of aligning most closely to a Biblical worldview.

GLENN: And if they don't, then your responsibility kicks in to speak out to stop them.

JOSH: That's right. We're in the most important in a moment our history, coming up in our election.

Then the next week will be just as important. Don't vote and then back off. Get more engaged. Speak up. Say things that are true, longer and louder. So it's not a Valentine.

How do I say it? Your vote is not a sacrament. Then lastly, this is crazy.

The ballot box isn't a mailbox. I heard a ton of Christians going, well, I'm not going to vote and send a message.

Why write an email and never hit send? No one cares that you didn't vote. The only outcome that matters is who wins.

So don't think you're sending a big message by not participating. That's a lie from the pit of hell, to silence the voice of the church. In maybe the most critical moment in the history of our nation.

And I will say this, pastors, you must be bolder. You must speak up louder and longer.

It may feel weird to talk about politics and the pulpit to you. But that's because you're living in this weird bubble and moment of history.

You're out of step with the great preachers of history in the past, who have always thundered from the pulpit, how to be engaged in politics.

GLENN: I am hungry for preachers to speak the truth, based on the Bible. I am hungry for it!

How do I apply these 2000-year-old teachings to what's happening right now?

JOSH: That's right. It's disingenuous to expect the pastors in their church to be bold in the marketplace, when they're failing to be bold in the pulpit.

GLENN: It is so great to see you.

JOSH: You too, Glenn.

GLENN: I actually will meet with the president tonight. And I'm hoping to convince him to do something with TheBlaze and Trinity Broadcasting. And I would love to invite you to be a part of it, if it actually comes through next week. I would love to have you be a part of it.

Because I have seen your social media, and you are right, spot-on.

JOSH: Thank you, sir. I appreciate it.

Ten seconds. We just started a school. Guard City Academy. There's 286 kids in class, listening right now, learning to become Christians and patriots. I want a huge shout-out to those guys. Go Farmers!

GLENN: God bless you. You guys are great.

Thank you, Josh.

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