RADIOJanuary 01, 2024

How Christians should respond to PERSECUTION from Biden AND their own Church

Under the Biden administration, traditionalist Catholics and conservative Christians of all kinds have increasingly become targets of the government. And some churches themselves are also starting to turn on traditionalist Christians. So, how should people of faith respond to this increase in persecution from outside AND within the Church? Glenn speaks with former presidential speechwriters Alex Torres and Joshua Charles, who have co-authored a new book, "Persecuted from Within." They argue that modern-day Christians should learn from those who came before them. And they also discuss the recent removal of Catholic Bishop Joseph Strickland by the Pope and how bizarre it is that Joe Biden — our second Catholic president — is targeting Catholics.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Well, let me say hello to a couple of people. Alec Torres. He was the former speechwriter for President Trump, and my good friend and former co-author Joshua Charles. He's also a former White House speechwriter. And he is the coauthor of Original Argument. The Federalist case for the Constitution.

Adapted for the 20th century, which is something we put out. I don't even know.

Joshua, how long was that? 2008, '9?

JOSHUA: 2011. That was over 10 years ago, Glenn. Thank you for the opportunity, did a lot of things. Thank you.

GLENN: No, you're extraordinarily talented.

So, guys, tell me. And I guess, Alec, if you want to start, tell me about Persecuted From Within.

ALEC: Persecuted From Within is a book that is really rooted in something that Josh and I were noticing. That if you are good, faithful, traditional Catholic. Just good, faithful, traditional Christians.

All around you, people are -- you're under attack.

People don't like you.

The state doesn't like you.

And, frankly, we saw in our own church. A lot of people in our own church don't like us.

And they're trying to crush us.

So we wanted to know how to respond to that. We wanted to figure out, how do you act as a Christian. A good person of faith, in response to institutions that you love, persecuting you.

And we thought of a better way to do that, than to look at great historical figures. Really, monumental Christians from the past, who had to live under pretty terrible circumstances.

Frankly, circumstances, that are oftentimes worse than our own. And learn the lesson straight from them.

GLENN: You cover one of my favorite guys.

Fulton sheen. The archbishop from New York. Who I didn't know about, growing up.

I found out about it, probably in 2008.

And I think he was one of the greatest guys ever.

I don't think of him as persecuted.

But he's a part of the book. How do you look at him?

And what did you learn from him?

ALEC: Well, he was persecuted in a way that was a little hidden. What happened with him. It was his cardinal at the time.

It was -- this is an interpersonal dispute. Bishop Sheen was in charge of distributing charity to the poor. And Stulman gave him a bunch of things from the government to distribute to the poor. And when Stulman asked Sheen to pay for it, Sheen said no.

So you think that's a small matter.

But it actually made the cardinals livid against Sheen.

And he found revenge, moved him out of his position. Cut him off from his TV program. And sent him off to work at Rochester, where he was totally ill suited for his role. He had to do it. Because it was his boss essentially.

He was under the cardinal. He looked at this great figure.

Media personalities.

Invited to these big events at New York.

And, boom, pretty much a failure, when he was sent over to Rochester.

All because he refused to take money from the poor.

And give it to his boss.

GLENN: Joshua, you're having this persecution.

A lot of people are questioning the way their churches are behaving.

Because we're in a time of great change. And I think most of our churches have gotten fat and sassy.

And are too timid to take on the real gospel truth. And how it applies to our lives.

A lot of people and a lot of faiths are having this problem.

In the Catholic Church, you just had something up heard of happen here in Texas.

Where the pope got involved, and kicked somebody out.

VOICE: Yeah. Bishop Strickland, who is a friend of mine. Right before COVID, I was able to spend some time with Bishop Strictland, in what we Catholics call a Eucharistic adoration. Where we pray for what we believe is the body, blood, and soul of our Lord, our Eucharist.

And we did that for what's called a holy hour. And I will say, the bishop is the real deal. We went from dinner.

He wears his garments everywhere he goes. He's a humble, shepherd of the Lord. And I think in his reaction to the situation, we see how many of the things that Alec and I write about in this book, reacted. And we cover about 2000 years' worth of saints.

And Bishop Strictland has asked Catholics, he's asked them to pray for Pope Francis. He's asked them to not engage in reviling. But he's also spoken the truth, about some of the issues, that are going on in the church.

And, frankly, that's the sort of behavior that many of the saints engaged in, in this book.

One that comes to mind is St. Athanasius, who was the great bishop of Alexandria. He was reviled and booted from his dioceses, multiple times. He was exiled five times through Alexandria. There was one time, some soldiers coming to pick him up, that were being sent by the emperor, who was coordinating with some Aryan bishops. And he just barely made it out.

He basically covered his face. And went through a crowd and escaped. So there were some pretty harrowing stories.

And Athanasius, the phrase was (another language), Athanasius against the world.

And he found support in Rome, and in other parts of the world, particularly in the West.

But he stood firmly for the truth, unwaveringly. But to do so, he had to experience persecution within the family, as we say.

And that's one of the great lessons of these things, is that to follow Jesus, Jesus says we must take up our cross, and the cross includes not only being on a path from external enemies -- you know, pagans and heathens, and what not. But from members of the family, so to speak, within the church as well. As Jesus himself was. From Judas, to the denial of Peter. And many of the problems the apostles addressed in the early church. There's all sorts of issues, those issues have never changed.

But many of these great saints face, as Alex mentioned, challenges that many of us couldn't even imagine. I think we're in a very trying time period, don't get me wrong.

But many of. You know, Joan of arc, for example. She's covered in this book. She was a lay woman, and she was killed.

She was unjustly brought to a trial. Her canonical rights to appeal to the Pope, for example, were denied. And as a result, she was executed. But she went to her execution, faithful, praying to God.
And she remained a Catholic.

And so, you know, that's the great story of these saints. Is that they do things that are quite literally, otherworldly.

And I think that's what is so inspiring. Either the Christianity thing is a complete fraud, or it's otherworldly.

And it actually gives its followers something that they could never give themselves. That's this peace. And the fortitude in the face of extraordinary persecution.

And the same, by engaging in this. By suffering in it.

They find the humility that ultimately takes us to heaven, frankly.

GLENN: I was just talking to Megyn Kelly.

And, you know, I don't just -- I could be wrong.

But I don't think that you guys wrote this, because of the persecution that's going on right now.

I have a feeling that you're thinking, that it's going to get much, much worse.

I could be wrong. And I would love to hear your opinion on it.

VOICE: I think so, yeah.

VOICE: Yeah, definitely.

GLENN: So Megyn and I were talking about what's coming. They put Donald Trump in Jail, or whatever.

There is a -- there is going to be a moment, where people have had enough.

And when that happens, persecution and the government will just come down hard.

So what is the -- what is the -- the things that we can pull from your book, that tells us what to do. And what not to do.

VOICE: I think in -- when we're facing -- you know, a lot of institutions turning against us, perhaps most terrifyingly our government in America. Because the amount of power it has. We've seen attacks by religious people, especially Catholics.

Even in the last few weeks, frankly.

It's holding on to truth. Especially the truth of our faith, matters more than anything else.

That gives strength, that can overcome any of these difficulties.

When other people are crumbling or being manipulated, or fallen to the wayside, it's our faith that allows us to be able to get through, even great difficulties and circumstances, we really never had to experience in our generations. And make it through in the end.

Time and time again, when it looked like their circumstance -- they themselves were imprisoned or martyred or, you know, shut up and away from the public fear. Would have their rights to speak, their liberties taken away from them.

They really did cling to their faith.

And God saw them through.

That's what is so wonderful about these stories.

You think looking at the history of persecution as great Christians would be a depressing subject.

But in a way, it's actually quite inspiring.

Seeing, their strength and how we can imitate that. And you can see how God is always with his people. When you're faithful to God, God is faithful in greater abundance, than we ever could imagine.

GLENN: What do you guys think we're facing? Especially as Catholics. You guys are -- we have a Catholic president. Only the second time in history.

The last time we had one, and the first one was JFK.

And now, we have a -- a Catholic president, who seems to be going after the Catholics. It's bizarre.

VOICE: Well, Glenn, this is a topic I've been pondering for really since COVID. I came into the Catholic Church in July 2019. And then so my first Easter was in 2020. And, you know, we -- we know that was a somewhat eventful year. And masses around the world were canceled for Easter. And what I discovered in the church fathers and in many of these great saints. Is this articulation, that I said before, that persecution comes not only from the outside, but from within.

And as we all know, those of us who have any family issues, which I'm sure all of us.

That's the hardest thing to deal with.

That's exactly what the saints dealt with. And, frankly, President Biden. I hope he repents.

I hope he comes back to a faith. He's clearly violating it.

And, frankly, we have many shepherds who aren't calling him on it.

And they will be held to a very high standard. On the day of justice.

We Catholics believe that every single one of us, wants to answer what we did, and what we failed to do, to Jesus Christ on the day of judgment.

And the people who have the highest standard for behavior, will be bishops, will be priests, and will be the pope.

And the pope has to go to confession.

The bishops have to go to confession. And to the extent, that they failed to amend their conduct before they died, they will have to answer to the biggest boss.

And so -- but what we saw with all these saints, is that the subtitle of the book is called how the saints endured crises in the church.

And I will say, that there is this idea that there's this Judas element within the church. Throughout its entire history.

Throughout its entire history.

It can't go away.

It will be resolved. But when Jesus comes back.

Jesus warned about it. The apostles warned about it.

Some have called it the antichurch.

And it's basically the dark side of the church.

And these saints exhibit an astounding level of humility, when they're faced with this kind of persecution.

So, for example, I joked with some of my White House colleagues. That the thing that sucks about being Catholic. Is we can't complain about suffering.

What I meant, there's this idea of the Catholic faith, of redemptive suffering. The idea is that through his cross. Prior to the Lord's cross and his death and resurrection. Suffering was basically meaningless. It was futile.

It was the affect of the fall. And what not. But after the cross. Every single human being, if they follow Christ, can join their suffering, and it becomes fruitful. It becomes fruitful for the salvation of others.

It becomes fruitful for the salvation of their own soul.

So it's futile and meaningless, which suffering oftentimes feels like.

Through Christ and his suffering, becomes meaningful.

And that's what so many of these things show. Stephen Colbert, I don't think he's the most -- the paradigm of the orthodox Catholic, per se.

But he has a beautiful line in an interview with Anderson Cooper, where Anderson Cooper was mentioning all these horrible tragedies that happened to him. And he basically said, how did you get through it?

And Stephen Colbert basically said, in the Catholic faith, God does it too. And that's essentially what you see in the lives of all these saints with affirmations. And St. Thomas Moore.

They were laymen. They were priests. They were bishops. They were monks and nuns.

They come from all sorts of walks of life. Sometimes they're having to criticize popes.

Sometimes they are having to be persecuted by their bishops or their cardinals, that Alex talked about.

Sometimes, they're literally being executed.

Or like Joan of Arc, or they're being exiled from diocese and on the run, like St. Appearnatius.

So they're dealing with all these things, but they know that they can join their sufferings to Christ. And these things. To say, we believe are in Heaven, praying for all of us. Reaping that the most possible fruit that human beings can ever reap, for the salvation of the world. And that's what their suffering did, by joining into Christ.

GLENN: Joshua, thank you so much.

Alex, the same.

The name of the book is Persecuted From Within. Written for Catholics. But I don't think it's probably just for Catholics.

It is for everybody. And I think we all need to look at how we are going to behave, in times of persecution.

Because I do believe it is coming. Again, persecuted from within.

Thank you so much, guys, God bless.

THE GLENN BECK PODCAST

How to Find God in a Divided World | Max Lucado & Glenn Beck

Glenn Beck sits down with beloved pastor and author Max Lucado for a deep conversation about faith, humility, and finding unity in a divided world. Together, they reflect on the importance of principles over politics, why humility opens the door to true dialogue, and how centering life on God brings clarity and peace. Lucado shares stories of faith, the dangers of a “prosperity gospel,” and the powerful reminder that life is not about making a big deal of ourselves, but about making a big deal of God. This uplifting conversation will inspire you to re-center your life, strengthen your faith, and see how humility and love can transform even the most divided times.

Watch Glenn Beck's FULL Interview with Max Lucado HERE

Confronting evil: Bill O'Reilly's insight on Charlie Kirk's enduring legacy

Bill O’Reilly joins Glenn Beck with a powerful prediction about Charlie Kirk’s legacy. Evil tried to destroy his movement, Bill says, but – as his new book, “Confronting Evil,” lays out – evil will just end up destroying itself once more…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Mr. Bill O'Reilly, welcome to the program, how are you, sir?

BILL: Good, Beck, thanks for having me back. I appreciate it. How have you been?

GLENN: Last week was really tough. I know it was tough for you and everybody else.

But, you know -- I haven't -- I haven't seen anything.

BILL: Family okay? All of that?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. Family is okay. Family is okay.

BILL: Good question good. That's the most important thing.

GLENN: It is.

So, Bill, what do you make of this whole Charlie Kirk thing. What happened, and where are we headed?

BILL: So my analysis is different for everybody else, and those that know me for so long. About a year ago, I was looking for a topic -- it was a contract to do another book. And I said, you know what's happening in America, and around the world. Was a rise in evil. It takes a year to research and write these books.

And not since the 1930s, had I seen that happen, to this extent. And in the 1930s, of course, you would have Tojo and Hitler and Mussolini and Franco and all these guys. And it led to 100 million dead in World War II. The same thing, not to the extent.

But the same thing was --
GLENN: Yet.
BILL: -- bubbling in the world, and in the United States.

I decided to write a book. The book comes out last Tuesday. And on Wednesday, Putin lobs missiles into Poland.

Ultra dangerous.

And a few hours later, Charlie Kirk is assassinated.

And one of the interviewers said to me last week, your -- your book is haunting. Is haunting.

And I think that's extremely accurate. Because that's what evil does.

And in the United States, we have so many distractions. The social media.

People create around their own lives.

Sports. Whatever it may be. That we look away.

Now, Charlie Kirk was an interesting fellow. Because at a very young age, he was mature enough to understand that he wanted to take a stand in favor of traditional America and Judeo Christian philosophy.

He decided that he wanted to do that.

You know, and when I was 31 or whatever, I was lucky I wasn't in the penitentiary. And I believe you were in the penitentiary.
(laughter)
So he was light years ahead of us.

GLENN: Yes, he was.

BILL: And he put it into motion. All right? Now, most good people, even if you disagree with what Mr. Kirk says on occasion, you admire that. That's the spirit of America. That you have a belief system, that you go out and try to promote that belief system, for the greater good of the country. That's what it is.

That's what Charlie Kirk did.

And he lost his life.

By doing it!

So when you essentially break all of this down. You take the emotion away, all right?

Which I have to do, in my job. You see it as another victory for evil.

But it really isn't.

And this is the ongoing story.

This is the most important story. So when you read my book, Confronting Evil, you'll see that all of these heinous individuals, Putin's on the cover. Mao. Hitler.

Ayatollah Khomeini. And then there are 14 others inside the book. They all destroy themselves.

Evil always destroys itself. But it takes so many people with it. So this shooter destroyed his own family.

And -- and Donald Trump, I talked to him about it last week in Yankee stadium. And Trump is a much different guy than most people think.

GLENN: He is.

JASON: He destroyed his own mother and father and his two brothers.

That's what he did. In addition to the Kirk family!

So evil spreads. Now, if Americans pay attention and come to the conclusion that I just stated, it will be much more difficult for evil to operate openly.

And that's what I think is going to happen.

There's going to be a ferocious backlash against the progressive left in particular.

To stop it, and I believe that is what Mr. Kirk's legacy is going to be.

GLENN: I -- I agree with you on all of these fronts.

I wonder though, you know, it took three, or if you count JFK, four assassinations in the '60s, to confront the evil if you will.

Before people really woke up and said, enough is enough!

And then you have the big Jesus revolution after that.

Is -- I hate to say this. But is -- as far gone as we are, is one assassination enough to wake people up?

JOHN: Some people. Some people will never wake up.

They just don't want to live in the real world, Beck. And it's never been easier to do that with the social media and the phones and the computers.

And you're never going to get them back.

But you don't need them. So let's just be very realistic here on the Glenn Beck show.

Let's run it down.

The corporate media is finished.

In America. It's over.

And you will see that play out the next five years.

Because the corporate media invested so much of its credibility into hating Donald Trump.

And the hate is the key word.

You will find this interesting, Beck. For the first time in ten years, I've been invited to do a major thing on CBS, today.

I will do it GE today. With major Garrett.

GLENN: Wow.

BILL: Now, that only happened because Skydance bought CBS. And Skydance understands the brand CBS is over, and they will have to rehabilitate the whole thing. NBC has not come to that conclusion yet, but it will have to.

And ABC just does the weather. I mean, that's all they care about. Is it snowing in Montana? Okay? The cables are all finished. Even Fox.

Once Trump leaves the stage, there's nowhere for FNC to go. Because they've invested so much in Trump, Trump, Trump, Trump.

So the fact of the matter is, the corporate media is over in America. That takes a huge cudgel out of the hands of the progressive movement.

Because the progressive movement was dependent on the corporate media to advance its cause. That's going to end, Beck.

GLENN: Well, I would hope that you're right.

Let me ask you about --

BILL: When am I wrong?

When am I wrong?

You've known me for 55 years. When have I been wrong?

GLENN: Okay. All right. All right. We're not here to argue things like that.

So tell me about Skydance. Because isn't Skydance Chinese?

BILL: No! It's Ellison. Larry Ellison, the second richest guy in the world. He owns Lanai and Hawaii, the big tech guy and his son is running it.

GLENN: Yeah, okay.

I though Skydance. I thought that was -- you know them.

BILL: Yeah.

And they -- they're not ideological, but they were as appalled as most of us who pay attention at the deterioration of the network presentations.

So --

GLENN: You think that they could.

BILL: 60 Minutes used to be the gold standard.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

BILL: And it just -- it -- you know, you know, I don't know if you watch it anymore.

GLENN: I don't either.

So do you think they can actually turn CBS around, or is it just over?

BILL: I don't know. It's very hard to predict, because so many people now bail. I've got a daughter 26, and a son, 22.

They never, ever watched network television.

And you've got -- it's true. Right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

They don't watch --

BILL: They're not going to watch The Voice. The dancing with this. The juggling with that. You know, I think they could do a much better job in their news presentations.

GLENN: Yeah. Right.

BILL: Because what they did, is banish people like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Reilly.

Same voices, with huge followings.

Huge!

All right?

We couldn't get on there.

That's why Colbert got fired. Because Colbert wouldn't -- refused to put on any non-progressive voice, when they were talking about the country.

GLENN: I know.

BILL: Well, it's not -- I'm censoring it.

GLENN: Yeah, but it's not that he was fired because he wouldn't do that. He was fired because that led to horrible ratings. Horrible ratings.

BILL: Yes, it was his defiance.

GLENN: Yes.

BILL: Fallon has terrible ratings and so does Kimmel. But Colbert was in your face, F you, to the people who were signing his paycheck.

GLENN: Yes. Yes.

BILL: Look, evil can only exist if the mechanisms of power are behind it.

And that's when you read the front -- I take them one by one. And Putin is the most important chapter by far.

GLENN: Why?

BILL: Because Putin would use nuclear weapon.

He wouldn't. He's a psychopath.

And I'm -- on Thursday night, I got a call from the president's people saying, would I meet the president at Yankee stadium for the 9/11 game?

And I said, when a president calls and asks you to meet them, sure.

GLENN: I'll be there. What time?

BILL: It will take me three days to get into Yankee stadium, on Long Island. But I'll start now.

GLENN: Especially because the president is coming. But go ahead.

BILL: Anyway, that was a very, I think that Mr. Trump values my opinion. And it was -- we did talk about Putin.

And the change in Putin. And I had warned him, that Putin had changed from the first administration, where Trump controlled Putin to some extent.

Now he's out of control. Because that's what always happens.

GLENN: Yeah.

BILL: It happened with Hitler. It happened with Mao. It happened with the ayatollah. It happened with Stalin. Right now. They get worse and worse and worse and worse. And then they blow up.

And that's where Putin is! But he couldn't do any of that, without the assent of the Russian people. They are allowing him to do this, to kill women and children. A million Russian casualties for what! For what! Okay?

So that's why this book is just in the stratosphere. And I was thinking object, oh. Because people want to understand evil, finally. Finally.

They're taking a hard look at it, and the Charlie Kirk assassination was an impetus to do that.

GLENN: Yeah. And I think it's also an impetus to look at the good side.

I mean, I think Charlie was just not a neutral -- a neutral character. He was a force for good. And for God.

And I think that -- that combination is almost the Martin Luther King combination. Where you have a guy who is speaking up for civil rights.

But then also, speaking up for God. And speaking truth, Scripturally.

And I think that combination still, strangely, I wouldn't have predicted it. But strangely still works here in America, and I think it's changed everything.

Bill, it's always food to talk to you. Thank you so much for being on. I appreciate it.

It's Bill O'Reilly. The name of the book, you don't want to miss. Is confronting evil. And he takes all of these really, really bad guys on. One by one. And shows you, what happens if you don't do something about it. Confronting evil. Bill O'Reilly.

And you can find it at BillO'Reilly.com.

Should people CELEBRATING Charlie Kirk’s death be fired?

There’s a big difference between firing someone, like a teacher, for believing children shouldn’t undergo trans surgery and firing a teacher who celebrated the murder of Charlie Kirk. Glenn Beck explains why the latter is NOT “cancel culture.”

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I got an email from somebody that says, Glenn, in the wake of Charlie's assassination, dozens of teachers, professors and professionals are being suspended or fired for mocking, or even celebrating Charlie Kirk's death.

Critics say conservatives are now being hypocritical because you oppose cancel culture. But is this the same as rose an losing her job over a crude joke. Or is it celebrating murder, and that's something more serious?

For many, this isn't about cancellation it's about trust. If a teacher is entrusted with children or a doctor entrusted with patients, publicly celebrates political violence, have they not yet disqualified themselves from those roles? Words matter. But cheering a death is an action. Is there any consequence for this? Yes. There is.

So let's have that conversation here for a second.

Is every -- is every speech controversy the same?

The answer to that is clearly no.

I mean, we've seen teachers and pastors and doctors and ordinary citizens lose their job now, just for saying they don't believe children under 18 should undergo transgender surgeries. Okay? Lost their job. Chased out.

That opinion, whether you agree or disagree is a moral and medical judgment.

And it is a matter of policy debate. It is speech in the public square.

I have a right to say, you're mutilating children. Okay. You have a right to say, no. We're not. This is the best practices. And then we can get into the silences of it. And we don't shout down the other side.

Okay? Now, on the other hand, you have Charlie Kirk's assassination. And we've seen teachers and professors go online and be celebrate.

Not criticize. Not argue policy. But celebrate that someone was murdered.

Some have gone so far and said, it's not a tragedy. It's a victory. Somebody else, another professor said, you reap what you sow.

Well, let me ask you: Are these two categories of free speech the same?

No! They're not.

Here's the difference. To say, I believe children should not be allowed to have gender surgeries, before 18. That is an attempt, right or wrong. It doesn't matter which side you are.

That is an attempt to protect life. Protect children. And guide society.

It's entering the debate about the role of medicine. The right of parents. And the boundaries of childhood. That's what that is about. To say Charlie Kirk's assassination is a good thing, that's not a debate. That's not even an idea. That's rejoicing in violence. It's glorifying death.

There's no place in a civil society for that kind of stuff. There's not. And it's a difference that actually matters.

You know, our Founders fought for free speech because they believed as Jefferson said, that air can be tolerated where truth is left free to combat it.

So I have no problem with people disagreeing with me, at all. I don't think you do either. I hope you don't. Otherwise, you should go back to read the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Error can be tolerated where truth is left to be free to combat it.

But when speech shifts from debating ideas to celebrating death, doesn't that cease to be the pursuit of truth and instead, just become a glorification of evil?

I know where I stand on that one. Where do you stand?

I mean, if you go back and you look at history, in colonial matter -- in colonial America, if you were to go against the parliament and against the king, those words were dangerous. They were called treason. But they were whys. They were arguments about liberty and taxation and the rights of man.

And the Founders risked their lives against the dictator to say those things.

Now, compare that to France in 1793.

You Thomas Paine, one of or -- one of our founder kind of. On the edges of our founders.

He thought that what was happening in France is exactly like the American Revolution.

Washington -- no. It wasn't.

There the crowds. They didn't gather to argue. Okay? They argued to cheer the guillotine they didn't want the battle of ideas.

They wanted blood. They wanted heads to roll.

And roll they did. You know, until the people who were screaming for the heads to roll, shouted for blood, found that their own heads were rolling.

Then they turned around on that one pretty quickly.

Think of Rome.

Cicero begged his countrymen to preserve the republic through reason, law, and debate. Then what happened?

The mob started cheering assassinations.

They rejoiced that enemies were slaughtered.

They were being fed to the lions.

And the republic fell into empire.

And liberty was lost!

Okay. So now let me bring this back to Charlie Kirk here for a second.

If there's a professor that says, I don't believe children should have surgeries before adulthood, is that cancel culture, when they're fired?

Yes! Yes, it is.

Because that is speech this pursuit of truth.

However imperfect, it is speech meant to protect children, not to harm them. You also cannot be fired for saying, I disagree with that.

If you are telling, I disagree with that. And I will do anything to shut you down including assassination! Well, then, that's a different story.

What I teacher says, I'm glad Charlie Kirk is dead, is that cancel culture, if they're fired?

Or is that just society saying, you know, I don't think I can trust my kid to -- to that guy.

Or that woman.

I know, that's not an enlightening mind.

Somebody who delights in political murder.

I don't want them around my children! Scripture weighs in here too.

Out of the abundance of the heart, the mouth speaketh. Matthew.

What does it reveal about the heart of a teacher who celebrates assassination?

To me, you go back to Scripture. Whoa unto them that call good evil -- evil good and good evil.

A society that will shrug on speech like this, say society that has lost its moral compass.

And I believe we still have a moral compass.

Now, our free speech law doesn't protect both. Absolutely. Under law. Absolutely.

Neither one of them should go to jail.

Neither should be silenced by the state.

But does trust survive both?

Can a parent trust their child to a teacher who is celebrating death?

I think no. I don't think a teacher can be trusted if they think that the children that it's right for children to see strippers in first grade!

I'm sorry. It's beyond reason. You should not be around my children!

But you shouldn't go to jail for that. Don't we, as a society have a right to demand virtue, in positions of authority?

Yes.

But the political class and honestly, the educational class, does everything they can to say, that doesn't matter.

But it does. And we're seeing it now. The line between cancel and culture, the -- the cancellation of people, and the accountability of people in our culture, it's not easy.

Except here. I think it is easy.

Cancel culture is about challenging the orthodoxy. Opinions about faith, morality, biology.
Accountability comes when speech reveals somebody's heart.

Accountability comes when you're like, you are a monster! You are celebrating violence. You're mocking life itself. One is an argument. The other is an abandonment of humanity. The Constitution, so you understand, protects both.

But we as a culture can decide, what kind of voices would shape our children? Heal our sick. Lead our communities?

I'm sorry, if you're in a position of trust, I think it's absolutely right for the culture to say, no!

No. You should not -- because this is not policy debate. This is celebrating death.

You know, our Founders gave us liberty.

And, you know, the big thing was, can you keep it?

Well, how do you keep it? Virtue. Virtue.

Liberty without virtue is suicide!

So if anybody is making this case to you, that this is cancel culture. I just want you to ask them this question.

Which do you want to defend?

Cancel culture that silences debate. Or a culture that still knows the difference between debating ideas and celebrating death.

Which one?

Shocking train video: Passengers wait while woman bleeds out

Surveillance footage of the murder of Ukrainian refugee Iryna Zarutska in Charlotte, NC, reveals that the other passengers on the train took a long time to help her. Glenn, Stu, and Jason debate whether they were right or wrong to do so.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: You know, I'm -- I'm torn on how I feel about the people on the train.

Because my first instinct is, they did nothing! They did nothing! Then my -- well, sit down and, you know -- you know, you're going to be judged. So be careful on judging others.

What would I have done? What would I want my wife to do in that situation?

STU: Yeah. Are those two different questions, by the way.

GLENN: Yeah, they are.

STU: I think they go far apart from each other. What would I want myself to do. I mean, it's tough to put yourself in a situation. It's very easy to watch a video on the internet and talk about your heroism. Everybody can do that very easily on Twitter. And everybody is.

You know, when you're in a vehicle that doesn't have an exit with a guy who just murdered somebody in front of you, and has a dripping blood off of a knife that's standing 10 feet away from you, 15 feet away from you.

There's probably a different standard there, that we should all kind of consider. And maybe give a little grace to what I saw at least was a woman, sitting across the -- the -- the aisle.

I think there is a difference there. But when you talk about that question. Those two questions are definitive.

You know, I know what I would want myself to do. I would hope I would act in a way that didn't completely embarrass myself afterward.

But I also think, when I'm thinking of my wife. My advice to my wife would not be to jump into the middle of that situation at all costs. She might do that anyway. She actually is a heck of a lot stronger than I am.

But she might do it anyway.

GLENN: How pathetic, but how true.

STU: Yes. But that would not be my advice to her.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

STU: Now, maybe once the guy has certainly -- is out of the area. And you don't think the moment you step into that situation. He will turn around and kill you too. Then, of course, obviously. Anything you can do to step in.

Not that there was much anyone on the train could do.

I mean, I don't think there was an outcome change, no matter what anyone on that train did.

Unfortunately.

But would I want her to step in?

Of course. If she felt she was safe, yes.

Think about, you said, your wife. Think about your daughter. Your daughter is on that train, just watching someone else getting murdered like that. Would you advise your daughter to jump into a situation like that?

That girl sitting across the aisle was somebody's daughter. I don't know, man.

JASON: I would. You know, as a dad, would I advise.

Hmm. No.

As a human being, would I hope that my daughter or my wife or that I would get up and at least comfort that woman while she's dying on the floor of a train?

Yeah.

I would hope that my daughter, my son, that I would -- and, you know, I have more confidence in my son or daughter or my wife doing something courageous more than I would.

But, you know, I think I have a more realistic picture of myself than anybody else.

And I'm not sure that -- I'm not sure what I would do in that situation. I know what I would hope I would do. But I also know what I fear I would do. But I would have hoped that I would have gotten up and at least tried to help her. You know, help her up off the floor. At least be there with her, as she's seeing her life, you know, spill out in under a minute.

And that's it other thing we have to keep in mind. This all happened so rapidly.

A minute is -- will seem like a very long period of time in that situation. But it's a very short period of time in real life.

STU: Yeah. You watch the video, Glenn. You know, I don't need the video to -- to change my -- my position on this.

But at his seem like there was a -- someone who did get there, eventually, to help, right? I saw someone seemingly trying to put pressure on her neck.

GLENN: Yeah. And tried to give her CPR.

STU: You know, no hope at that point. How long of a time period would you say that was?

Do you know off the top of your head?

GLENN: I don't know. I don't know. I know that we watched the video that I saw. I haven't seen past 30 seconds after she --

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: -- is down. And, you know, for 30 seconds nothing is happening. You know, that is -- that is not a very long period of time.

STU: Right.

GLENN: In reality.

STU: And especially, I saw the pace he was walking. He certainly can't be -- you know, he may have left the actual train car by 30 seconds to a minute. But he wasn't that far away. Like he was still in visual.

He could still turn around and look and see what's going on at that point. So certainly still a threat is my point. He has not, like, left the area. This is not that type of situation.

You know, I -- look, as you point out, I think if I could be super duper sexist for a moment here, sort of my dividing line might just be men and women.

You know, I don't know if it's that a -- you're not supposed to say that, I suppose these days. But, like, there is a difference there. If I'm a man, you know, I would be -- I would want my son to jump in on that, I suppose. I don't know if he could do anything about it. But you would expect at least a grown man to be able to go in there and do something about it. A woman, you know, I don't know.

Maybe I'm -- I hope --

GLENN: Here's the thing I -- here's the thing that I -- that causes me to say, no. You should have jumped in.

And that is, you know, you've already killed one person on the train. So you've proven that you're a killer. And anybody who would have screamed and got up and was with her, she's dying. She's dying. Get him. Get him.

Then the whole train is responsible for stopping that guy. You know. And if you don't stop him, after he's killed one person, if you're not all as members of that train, if you're not stopping him, you know, the person at the side of that girl would be the least likely to be killed. It would be the ones that are standing you up and trying to stop him from getting back to your daughter or your wife or you.

JASON: There was a -- speaking of men and women and their roles in this. There was a video circling social media yesterday. In Sweden. There was a group of officials up on a stage. And one of the main. I think it was health official woman collapses on stage. Completely passes out.

All the men kind of look away. Or I don't know if they're looking away. Or pretending that they didn't know what was going on. There was another woman standing directly behind the woman passed out.

Immediately springs into action. Jumps on top. Grabs her pant leg. Grabs her shoulder. Spins her over and starts providing care.

What did she have that the other guys did not? Or women?

She was a sheepdog. There is a -- this is my issue. And I completely agree with Stu. I completely agree with you. There's some people that do not respond this way. My issue is the proportion of sheepdogs versus people that don't really know how to act. That is diminishing in western society. And American society.

We see it all the time in these critical actions. I mean, circumstances.

There are men and women, and it's actually a meme. That fantasize about hoards of people coming to attack their home and family. And they sit there and say, I've got it. You guys go. I'm staying behind, while I smoke my cigarette and wait for the hoards to come, because I will sacrifice myself. There are men and women that fantasize of block my highway. Go ahead. Block my highway. I'm going to do something about it. They fantasize about someone holding up -- not a liquor store. A convenience store or something. Because they will step in and do something. My issue now is that proportion of sheepdogs in society is disappearing. Just on statistical fact, there should be one within that train car, and there were none.

STU: Yeah. I mean --

JASON: They did not respond.

STU: We see what happens when they do, with Daniel Penny. Our society tries to vilify them and crush their existence. Now, there weren't that many people on that train. Right?

At least on that car. At least it's limited. I only saw three or four people there, there may have been more. I agree with you, though. Like, you see what happens when we actually do have a really recent example of someone doing exactly what Jason wants and what I would want a guy to do. Especially a marine to step up and stop this from happening. And the man was dragged by our legal system to a position where he nearly had to spend the rest of his life in prison.

I mean, I -- it's insanity. Thankfully, they came to their senses on that one.

GLENN: Well, the difference between that one and this one though is that the guy was threatening. This one, he killed somebody.

STU: Yeah. Right. Well, but -- I think -- but it's the opposite way. The debate with Penny, was should he have recognize that had this person might have just been crazy and not done anything?

Maybe. He hadn't actually acted yet. He was just saying things.

GLENN: Yeah. Well --

STU: He didn't wind up stabbing someone. This is a situation where these people have already seen what this man will do to you, even when you don't do anything to try to stop him. So if this woman, who is, again, looks to be an average American woman.

Across the aisle. Steps in and tries to do something. This guy could easily turn around and just make another pile of dead bodies next to the one that already exists.

And, you know, whether that is an optimal solution for our society, I don't know that that's helpful.

In that situation.