RADIOJanuary 22, 2025

Why Biden’s Pardons for Fauci, Family, & J6 Committee May BACKFIRE

Famed attorney Alan Dershowitz tells Glenn that he would be “very upset” if he was one of the people Biden pardoned in his last few days in office. Members of Biden’s family, Dr. Fauci, Gen. Mark Milley, and January 6th Committee members all received preemptive pardons, allegedly to stop Trump from taking revenge on them. But Dershowitz argues that now, they look guilty and have lost their right to plead the 5th. So, if they’re subpoenaed before Congress, they MUST admit the truth. Dershowitz also reveals why Trump’s promise to end DEI was his favorite announcement of Day One. Plus, he explains why he’s “much more optimistic” about America than before and why he will “never” call Trump a convicted felon.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I don't know about you, but I have a real problem with somebody giving people who work in government blanket pardons for anything that they might have done wrong.

It just doesn't seem like American justice. And it doesn't seem like a system where you can hold people accountable for what they've done. It just seemed like that is ripe for corruption, in every way possible. What does it all mean?

Well, Alan Dershowitz is here with us now, to talk to us about the future of pardons. Or the pardons that Joe Biden made. And said he wouldn't just a few years ago. Alan Dershowitz. Harvard law school. Professor emeritus. Host of the Dershow. And the author of get Trump. Welcome, Adam.

ALAN: Thanks for having me. Appreciate it.

GLENN: You bet. So can you -- I mean, everything that these guys have done, when they try to force their hand. It seems to backfire on them.

I'm hoping this is the case. But, I mean, it just screams trouble, for the future.

ALAN: Look, if I were one of the people that Biden pardoned, I would be very upset.

First of all, it makes it sound like, he did something wrong. Even if they didn't. And second, you know, it denies them their fifth amendment right. So they can go in front of Congress. Investigated completely, as to all of their actions.

So I don't think Biden did them any favors. And he also set a dangerous precedent.

Look, when Ford pardoned Nixon. That was the national interest. Because Nixon was under investigation.

This was a special prosecutor, still operating.

But these folks, the relatives. They weren't under any investigation. And really, weren't under any cloud.

And I just don't understand, why Biden did that, after violating his own promise to the American public. When he said, he wouldn't pardon his own -- all right. I understand your son has been convicted. He's about to be sent to jail. He's a young man, who has had all kinds of troubles with drugs and other things. I understand the father doing that. What I don't understand is on the way out, literally, literally as he's sitting on the platform in Washington, he issues these last-minute pardons to virtually everybody in his family, and the surrounding people. It just -- it establishes a precedent for President Trump. And probably establishes a precedent, because he now has flexibility in the pardons he can issue.

Look, the most important thing -- many of the important things that President Trump said at his inauguration. One of that is that he wants to put an end to lawfare.

And if we put an end to lawfare, which is one of the worst things that has ever happened to this country, you know, I coined that term back in the 1960s in a very negative way.

And it's used in a very negative way.

But if we can end lawfare, then we may see an end to these promiscuous use of pardons as well. Because I think the pardons are seen as an antidote to lawfare. And I'm hoping, we can get back to a situation, which the Framers intended, where people prosecuted not for what party they belonged to.

But for what they've actually done. If we can see a return to that. Maybe we can see a return to the more normal use of pardons as well.

GLENN: Well, I don't think that Fauci is in danger of being prosecuted for what party he belonged to.

I mean, you know, he got along with Donald Trump famously. But if we can't -- if we can't prosecute people, and this becomes a habit of every president. Just blanket pardoning people that were involved in anything.

Then we have a real issue here.

There's nobody that can ever be held accountable.

Who will be held accountable for what happened with COVID?

ALAN: No wonder our system of federalism. You can be held accountable by the space.

As you know, Trump was prosecuted by New York, and that invalid, unconstitutional conviction still stands.

Now, you and I disagree with Dr. Fauci. Now, we may agree that COVID wasn't handled properly.
But, you know, I'm pretty experienced as a criminal lawyer. I can't find any criminal conduct, in what Fauci did.

What he thought was --

GLENN: So I don't think, Alan. I don't think that we disagree.

I just want an investigation done. And if there was something that was criminal, we must -- I don't care who it is.

We must make sure that it doesn't happen again.

All I want is the truth. I'm not after anybody.

And -- go ahead.

ALAN: The investigation is made easier now with the pardons. Because now Fauci can claim the Fifth Amendment.

He has to go in front of congressional committees, and they are controlled by Republicans now. And he can be asked a disclosure of all of his records. He can't destroy records. They're not his records.

They're the records of, you know, government health agencies. And we can have a full and complete and total noncriminal investigation of Fauci and everybody else. And that's what our system is all about.

And I would like to see investigations.

For example, I think one of the best things that President Trump said in his inauguration yesterday.

Was he was putting a final end to DEI.

Diversity, equity, and inclusion.

Which is the single worst thing that has happened to our system of equality and universities in the United States. As you know, DEI stands for diversity, equity, and inclusion.

What it really means is lack of any diversity, except based on skin color. Lack of equality and the substitution of group equity, and exclusion of Asians, Jews, and other less popular minorities.

So, you know, I love to see -- and I would love to see Congress investigate universities that still have DEA programs that end up being hotbeds of anti-Semitism, anti-Americanism, anti-Catholicism. You name it. Anti-religion.

It's the worst thing that's happened to universities. It's turning their universities into second and third class institutions, that can't compete in the world today.

GLENN: I really don't like this idea, that we have presidents come in, and dictate through president -- presidential Fiats and executive orders.

We can't -- you just can't run a country that way. You know, flipping one direction, and then entirely the other direction.

Things have got to go through Congress. However, in this particular time period, how else are you going to do it?

How concerned are you, about the -- about the precedent that we're now sealing, from the last two presidents and executive orders?

ALAN: Well, it starts with Thomas Jefferson. Of course, he runs for president in the 1800s. Saying the presidents have too much power. I want to restore Congress.

And the power of Congress, one of the first things he does is buys Louisiana.

It doesn't give Congress any influence. Through executive order.

One of the best things that ever happen to America. You know, Alaska was purchased by presidential order.

So, you know, they're good, and they're bad.

And the one thing about presidential orders as we saw yesterday, is they can be rescinded the moment the new president comes in. The first thing the president -- the first act was to rescind 70 some odd presidential executive orders. So, you know, they're only temporary.

The Constitution doesn't mention executive orders.

It just gives power to the president. And allows him to have that power.

So I would love to see more going to Congress. Look, I think Congress is supposed to declare war.

And yet, we've had so many wars since the last time we declared war. That, you know, presidents have assumed far more power, than the Framers of our Constitution, ever intended.

GLENN: Correct.

ALAN: Remember, Article I is the Congress. Article II is the President. Congress is supposed to be the govern body of America, with the president administering the laws, not making the laws.

GLENN: Correct. Correct.

But people of the administrative state -- I mean, I know we're in an argument now of, you can't fire them.

All of these protections. But if they don't work for the executive. And the executive branch. Who do they work for?

ALAN: Oh, they're supposed to work for the people of the United States.

And it's so complicated. Take, for example, the Justice Department. We have a new attorney general. She's wonderful. I work with her. She's a great lawyer.

She's a great person. But she has an impossible job. She's supposed to be the president's loyal adviser of legal issues. Part of his cabinet, designed to make him look good.

That's part of her job. The other part of her job is to be the chief prosecutor.

For that, she can't be political at all. She has to be completely objective. In most western democracies, those two jobs are divided. We have the director of public prosecution, who decides who to prosecute.

And the attorney general, the minister of justice, who decides policy. But in this country, we have the two -- to merge. And it creates an impossible job. And I think Bondi is capable of doing it. Garland was not. He couldn't strike the appropriate balance, between politics and law. And so these are very, very hard questions. You remember the Bible instructs judges and prosecutors. He refers to (foreign language). Do not recognize faces. Do not do justice based on who the person is. Only do justice based on what they've done. And we have to return to that. It's Biblical. It's Constitutional. And it's the right thing.

GLENN: Correct.

What was your response yesterday when the way everything came off, how do you -- are you more optimistic about our country? Or less?

ALAN: I'm much more optimistic about our country. I spoke to President Trump twice, between the time of the election -- three times, actually.

Between the time of the election, and the time he assumed the presidency.

And we had good discussions about Israel, about the Middle East, about anti-Semitism.

But also about lawfare and the rule of law.
And I think he was a very different person, in these kinds of, one on one conversations. Or one on two conversations. Than he is, you know, when he was on television. And in front of large crowds.

I'm hopeful, that they'll really take advantage of the fact. You know, he's the luckiest guy in the world. That he didn't win the last election in 2000 -- if he had that election turned around.

And they had traditionally ruled that he was the president.

He would have had four miserable years. In which half the country wouldn't have accepted him.

And now we would -- as of now, he is the most -- the president with a mandate. With a popular vote.

The best thing that ever happened to him. And I told him that. Most recently, I said, basically, get over it!

You're so lucky. That you're now the president. You have a full second term ahead of you.

And he smiled. And I think he'll do a good job.

GLENN: Yeah. I have to tell you. I told him similar, but I said, you know, it wasn't necessarily about him. Look how grateful we should be.

Because look at -- if we would have had him in 2020. So much wouldn't have been exposed, that has been exposed over the last four years.

And he would have been doing the same thing. That he was doing in the first four years.

This gave him a chance to step away from it. Reassess. Watch what's going on. People wake up. And now he has a chance of really making an impact.

ALAN: Yeah. I'm calling him now President President Trump because, you know, he's been president twice.

He would like to call himself President President President Trump. But you can't be president three times. So just President President Trump.

And I will never call him a convicted felon, ever. He was not convicted of a constitutionally permissible crime. He is totally innocent. And people should understand that. The New York case is unconstitutional. Nobody can even describe what he was convicted of.

So I'm never going to call him a convicted felon, any more than I would call a civil rights worker who went down south with me, in 1960s and was convicted of a felony for spitting on the sidewalk a convicted felon.

We have to look at what the surrounding circumstances. So President Trump is our president. Whether you voted for him or against him.

Everybody should be praying and hoping for four freight years for America.

GLENN: Alan, thank you so much. Appreciate it.

ALAN: Always my pleasure. Great talking to you. You too.

GLENN: Thanks. You bet.

The Book of Enoch: Did Extraterrestrial Beings DESCEND in the Days of Noah?!

The Book of Enoch tells a story the Bible only hints at: A story of heavenly beings who descended to Earth, took human wives, created hybrid giants, and unleashed forbidden knowledge that corrupted the world before the Flood. Glenn Beck and researcher Timothy Alberino break down how the ancient Hebrew worldview explains the Watchers, the Nephilim, the origins of demigod myths, and why Peter and Jude referenced Enoch directly in the New Testament. From extraterrestrial terms in Scripture to the cosmic “family of God” and the divine rebellion that reshaped human history, this discussion reveals a forgotten narrative that once defined early Jewish and Christian theology. What really happened in the days of Noah, and why does it matter now?

Watch the FULL Interview HERE

Cracker Barrel CEO breaks silence on logo controversy in exclusive interview

Glenn Beck recently spoke with Cracker Barrel CEO Julie Masino about the company’s infamous attempt to change its logo, and he asked the question everyone has been wondering: Why wasn’t she fired?! Glenn previews his interview, which debuts Thursday, Nov. 20 at 6PM ET!

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I was in Tennessee this weekend, and Saturday morning, I go to -- I think store number two for Cracker Barrel. And I met with the senior vice president and the CEO of Cracker Barrel. And we sat down, and we had an interview. And Julie, who has not done an interview since Good Morning America, kind of said, okay. No more interviews, because that didn't go well.

This was her first interview since then.

And, you know, it was weird. Because I got off. I got off the plane.

And, oh. Somebody on the plane said, "What are you doing here?"

And I said, "I'm going to go interview the CEO of -- of Cracker Barrel."

And the immediate response was, "Get her!"

I was like, "Wow. Okay. All right. Thank you."

I get into the car, and the Uber driver says to me, "What are you doing here?" And I said, "I'm going to meet with the person at Cracker Barrel."

"Boy, she really screwed her up. You hold her feet to the fire."

I mean, I've never -- I've never seen anything like that. And, you know, I started the interview with her, you know, honestly. And I said, look, I -- I -- I'm not here to get you. I'm not here to do anything, but ask questions that I think everybody in America wants to know.

Like, what the hell were you thinking?

And I asked her some -- asked her all of the really pointed questions. Rikki, the TV executive producer said, "There's no way. I know you. You're going to soften. There's no way."

And when I got up afterwards, she was like, "Wow. Okay. You didn't -- you really -- you really didn't soften. You know, you asked all of those questions."

Because I thought they were fair. And I told her, "Look, I hate conflict. I'm not here for conflict. I'm not here. I don't need to make a name for myself by giving you a hard time. I don't care about any of that. I just want to do my job and ask you, 'What happened here?'"

And I said, "So I'm going to ask you really uncomfortable questions." And she was prepared. And I think I finally broke through, and got the real answer in the end. I think I got the real answer.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: And it came from one of the questions I asked was, I mean, are you surprised, you haven't been fired yet?

And her response was, all telling. All telling. It's a fascinating interview you should watch. It's going to happen, I think Thursday on the podcast.

STU: Because I'm mildly surprised that hasn't happened. You know, like just because -- not because -- I don't know. There's a lot of things she's been accused of and everything else.

But just like, when you have a situation like this, where you're trying a major change and you roll it out a specific way and it does not go well, you know, it's usually -- it's like, when you're general manager of a football team, you go through the process. You evaluate all the quarterbacks. You pick the guy.

And that guy is a total bust, like you usually don't survive it. It doesn't necessarily mean you went through the process incorrectly. But when you miss, usually something happens like that. Does she feel like she missed like that?

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes, she does.

She's a very bright woman. I mean, she ran Coach, you know, the purse place or whatever.
STU: The purse company.
GLENN: The Coach brand. Godiva Chocolates. Taco Bell, the whole -- global. (I mean, she's a Fortune 500 CEO. She's very, very competent. Very competent.

So how could somebody very, very competent make this mistake?

STU: Hmm. Did she walk you through that? How that happened?

GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. She see.

And what's interesting is, they brought the senior vice president was also sitting there.

And he has been brought in since.

I mean, he had been there for 30, 35 years.

And really good guy. And he was one of the voices that was like, while that was happening, like, you guys. Hey, everybody upstairs. You shouldn't be doing this.

It's a bad idea. And so after they were like, "Hey. You know who was saying this? Let's bring him upstairs." And it was interesting to talk to him, because he's been long before she got there. So he kind of gave the view of, here's what happened before she got here! And here's where she came in.

And here's what happened.

And it's -- it's really fascinating.

I mean, if you want to hear the real story behind it.

And -- and also see somebody -- I mean, just wait until you hear her answer on -- I mean, it was so powerful and so honest. When I said, are you surprised you haven't been fired yet?

It was a fascinating answer.

STU: How many pancakes did you --

GLENN: Podcast on Thursday, I didn't eat any.

STU: You went to Cracker Barrel headquarters, and you ate zero pancakes?

GLENN: I didn't. I didn't. It was very difficult to not order the pancakes.

STU: You're the type of guy who gets pancakes by mistake. What do you mean you've got none?

GLENN: I was looking at my wife. My wife was sitting off to the side of the camera. And I'm looking at her. I'm like, she's so beautiful. And I eat pancakes, too many times.

STU: Uh-huh.

GLENN: And she's just -- she has to live with this, the pancake-wearing shoes. I'm not going to order the pancakes. The pancakes.

THIS Epstein quote could PROVE Trump’s real ties to the scandal

Democrats are trying yet again to tie President Trump to Jeffrey Epstein’s scandals. This time, they’ve highlighted that Epstein once referred to Trump as “the dog that hasn’t barked.” Is this proof that Trump is in the Epstein Files…or is it actually evidence that he was a whistleblower against Epstein? Glenn and Stu discuss…

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Now, Jeffrey Epstein is back in the news today. Could we just for the love of Pete release everything that we have, so we can move on! From the Jeffrey Epstein thing.

Here's the answer: No.

Even if we release everything that we still have, this is going to go on for the rest of our lives.

It will always -- and probably, into our children's lives.

Do you know, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the reason we never went to the moon.

It's going to happen!

It's just one of these conspiracy theories, that will never, ever go away.

Why?

Because no one was honest about it in the first place. Once you start to lie, you lie once -- once! If you're a very honest person, you will lie once. And then people are like, what? What?

Why would he lie about that? What is going on?

He's not like that. But if you're the United States governor government. You already have no credibility whatsoever!

Stop lying to the American people.

Just stop it. You know, I said something a minute ago. One of the reasons why you're hearing lies is because it works to the advantage of a Colour Revolution.

You know, there are reasons why people are lying to you. Some of it, they're just dirtbags and they're liars. Some of it, they're politicians, and so they're liars.

Some of it, however, a good deal of it is, we lie, because we know it causes damage to the credibility of this entire system.

We know it does damage to the culture of America, and we are here trying to destroy the culture of America because we want to try something new. And the only -- you won't vote for it. So the only way we can get America to change and do something entirely different, that they will never vote for, is just to cause chaos and disbelief in everything!

So as I said a minute ago, you know, it's not the news. Many times, it's a reflection of a plan! And when it comes to the Epstein thing, this is absolutely a plan. The way this thing has been played out. Democrats are completely against bringing anything out against Epstein.

They don't want to do anything about it. The media. Do you remember the ABC anchor that went into a commercial break. And she was like, you know what, I've got to tell you, Epstein. You know, we had the goods on him. Dead to rights.

Clinton. All of it.

And we were told, pull it.

Remember that.

Remember that, gang?

They pulled it at ABC. I think they fired the person who tried to -- who released that video.

Or tried to fire that person. I think they were working either at CBS or whatever. That person was in trouble for releasing that behind the scenes tape.

They had no intention of it. Now, everybody wants the Epstein tapes. Wait a minute. You didn't want them when Biden went in. And you could have said something, Democrats. And you could have released it all.

And, you know, it's funny. It is just so full of stuff about Donald Trump. Then why wouldn't they release just that?

Why wouldn't have the Democrats released anything in the Epstein file?

You're telling me, we've got to find something on them. Hey. I've got the Epstein files. Yeah, yeah. We've got to find something on it.

I have got some information here about Epstein. Him and Epstein, they were fooling around. Yeah, shut up for a second. Is there anything at all, that we can construe and manufacture about his banks?

I know!

He's got a vet signal between his bank and the Russian bank. I've got stuff about the Epstein.

Come on! If they had stuff about the Epstein, they would have gone to the stuff about the Epstein files.

They don't have anything, they don't have anything.

Now, let me speak directly to conservatives. They're not going to release anything about the Democrats, because they had the Epstein files.

Do you think that -- let's just say, I'm not even going to name names. Let's just say the most powerful people on the earth. The most powerful people with powerful connections, to government.

They knew their names were, you know, there on little, you know, guest books at the island, or whatever.

You don't think they called in some favors and said, "Hey, I need that -- can you remove that?"

You don't think that there were people that were like, "Hey. You know what, we'll remove that."

"We need $100 million from you, to help out on this campaign."

I mean, whatever it is, those names are gone too! They're gone! How do I know this?

Because the government is completely dishonest! That's how I know that.

But, anyway, now, Donald Trump.

STU: You don't think anything of interest would be in these files?

I mean, I think we've already seen some stuff of interest in the emails, no?

GLENN: Yeah, I think there are stuff of interest. I don't think there's going to be anyone at a very high level that is going to get -- that's going to be like, holy cow. Look, here's pictures with him with a 14-year-old girl!

That's not going to happen.

STU: Right. Somewhere that stuff, at least at the upper levels, not there.

Now, here's what is interesting: The timing of the release of a few documents last week. The Democrats released some documents.

And they released them, and at the same time, that Johnson were saying, by the way, we are going to expedite the releasing of everything.

So there's no reason to leak anything. But the Democrats decide to leak some stuff. They like a memo. And in that, oh, my gosh.

Look at what was said. What was said in that memo. Well, it was said, you know, the only dog that hasn't barked is Trump!

Well, what -- what did he mean by that?

He's keeping it quiet. All of these things. All of these innuendos and everything. Well, now we know, from the guy who wrote the book, all the president's meeting. Donald Trump and the making of a predator, that guy came out this weekend and said, no, no. That's not what he meant.

What did he mean?

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(music)

GLENN: So Barry Levine comes on. And he's on MSNBC this wreaked.

And he's asked, so tell me, I mean, we've seen this email between you and Epstein. What did he mean that the to go that hasn't barked is Trump. What do you think he's referring to?

Okay. What was he referring to?

I think Epstein is referring to the fact that he believed that Donald Trump talked to Michael rider who was the Palm Beach police chief in 2004. And began the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.

So, in other words, he was the whistle-blower!

Yeah. But he's got all kinds of stuff in his -- in Jeffrey Epstein's books.

He's the whistle-blower!

The one thing you don't do is blow the whistle, when you know you got fingerprints all over the dead body. And the handgun that killed him!

You know what, I think you could find that hand gun, in this alleyway. Your fingerprints are on it. Man, why would you blow the whistle?

The suspect, he said, I suspected that Jeffrey Epstein was saying, he was 75 percent there.

Believing that Trump might have been the whistle-blower at the time. He believed it's 75 percent.

Now, how do you release something.

I mean, if you think things will be released. That will get Donald Trump. Why would you release that?

Where after two days of it being out, the guy who was part of that email, who hates Donald Trump, is like, yeah.

That's not what it means. It means he was whistle blower. Jeez.

STU: That is interesting. And I will say, you know, it is -- amazing that that's what they released. And chose to release.

That's the same email, by the way, that you're mentioning. That they blacked out the name of Virginia Giuffre, which they did intentionally. Because she has said that he was nothing, but respectful. And was never with any of the girls at all.

In not only her book, but also in testimony, under oath.

And the other one, that they released, which said, Trump -- he says, of course, he knew about the girls, was the other big one that they released. Which they left the -- well, they didn't leave it out. They just hoped you didn't focus on the next part of the sentence, which he says, that of course, he knew about the girls, as he asked Ghislaine to stop. Which would indicate, even if he was aware of this, which I don't think this had anything to do with the sex stuff. I think this was about him taking them.

GLENN: No. It was about poaching his girls from Mar-a-Lago.

STU: Right.

GLENN: The employees. He knows that we're poaching these girls. It doesn't mean he knows what they're doing with them. Stop taking my employees!

Okay. Now, if you suspect he's the whistle-blower and he knew you were taking employees from him, you know, in retrospect, you know, looking at it later, you go, oh, man, he's the whistle-blower?

But he also knows about the girls.

He knows we were taking them.

Does he know what we were doing with the girls?

I mean, this does not hurt Donald Trump. It helps Donald Trump.

STU: What about the one they released from Jeffrey Epstein. Where he said, I've met some very bad people, and none are as bad as Trump.

I mean, what if they come up with bad comments from Jeffrey Dahmer about Donald Trump? What will you say then? I mean, this is so dumb.

GLENN: I've eaten some bad eggs in my life, but I would not eat Donald Trump. I'll tell you that right now.

'House of David' Star REVEALS Story Behind TV’s #1 Biblical Series

Amazon’s House of David has become the #1 show on Prime Video, and today Glenn Beck talks with Michael Iskander, the actor bringing King David to life in one of the most powerful biblical series ever produced. Michael shares how fasting, prayer, and years of preparation shaped his performance, why David’s flaws and redemption resonate so deeply with viewers, and what really happened behind the scenes with Goliath, the sheep, and the shepherd who taught him lessons he’ll never forget.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I've got somebody on, who is in just an amazing, amazing show from Amazon. House of David. If you haven't seen House of David yet, you have to. Do you remember when-like biblical movies. I mean, they were good in the '50s. And then they got really, really bad.

And then all through the '70s and '80s and 2000s. They were horrible.

And then all of a sudden, they got really, really good?

This someone amazing. This is as good as the Jesus. What is the Jesus one?

Chosen.

It's called House of David. It's on Amazon, and we have the guy who portrays David. Michael Iskander on with us.

Michael, how are you?

MICHAEL: I'm good. What an introduction. Thank you for that!

GLENN: I mean, it's really.

Come on. Was there any time, that you thought, oh, man. This might -- I hope they do it right!

And then you saw the finished product, and you were like, wow! This is good?

MICHAEL: Yeah. That was -- you know, I try to keep my head down, and, you know, it's -- it's not finished until it's finished.

And season two is coming out. You know, I'm just going to be hearing the response of how this show is really affecting people.

GLENN: So can I talk to you about Goliath?

Because Goliath is portrayed really as a giant. Not just a big guy. He's a giant.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

GLENN: Talk to me about that.

MICHAEL: Well, I'll tell you what, when I first met Martin.

He was -- I went to -- I went to the gym with him one time.

And I -- I knew, I'm going to get, you know, my stuff. So I was prepared for that.

And -- and he made me workout for two and a half hours. And I thought that the workout was done. And he was like, no. There's another half. And, man, he -- Martin is a really dedicated man. And he just -- he pushed me to the edge, when it came to working out.

And, you know, when it comes to his role with Goliath. He's someone that really just put all the effort, both physically and emotionally to really portray that part, as best as he can.

GLENN: How long did it take you to learn the slingshot?

MICHAEL: Three days. It wasn't too bad.

GLENN: Well, I heard you had problem with the sheep.

That the sheep were -- they were not helpful.

MICHAEL: The sheep -- well, the sheep were actually really interesting.

I remember when we first started filming, they -- they put me in sheep training classes.

Because when I get on tape. They have to make sure, that I'm not -- you know, I'm not going to get attacked by one of the sheep. And I'm comfortable around them.

The sheep. First day I show up to this training, and she painted me. And you would think that the guy who plays David, you know, would think of his sheep.

GLENN: No. I don't. I don't. I don't think that's natural. You're an actor. I don't know if that's -- yep, well, they picked me because I'm good with sheep.

MICHAEL: I should get classes from you.

GLENN: I don't know.

MICHAEL: But, no. I mean, it really -- spent a lot of time with the Shepherd.
And he was giving me some really amazing lessons.
He saw that I was having trouble.

And he said, you know, you should stick next to me. Because this sheep, when they see you with the shepherd, they'll know that you're with me.
So they'll never leave my side.

GLENN: It's amazing.

MICHAEL: I want you to spend a lot of time with me. And I he said, oh, okay. And he said, I want you to know another thing: A bad shepherd is a shepherd who is behind the flock. And so you, you're going to be a good shepherd. You're going to show them. You're not going to let them lead you.

You're going to lead them, and you're going to be in the front taking risks and showing them the path.

GLENN: Uh-huh.

MICHAEL: And he is saying this, I think -- I think I'm getting more than just a sheep lesson here. It really helped in terms of understanding who David was as a person. And then his relationship to Christ.

And why -- why David was chosen as king.

GLENN: Is it true that you fasted, before the audition? I mean, you're a Broadway guy.

MICHAEL: Yeah. Yeah. I sent in the first audition. I was really excited about it.

And it was a dream of mine for a long time. You know, one of these dreams, that you don't tell anyone. And you don't think it will ever happen.

GLENN: To play David specifically? Or to be --

MICHAEL: Yeah, to play David. To play David.

GLENN: Really?

MICHAEL: And because I was inspired by the Chosen.

And I wanted to maybe do flashback scenes with a young David, or something.

When I got the audition, and they originally said no. I thought, oh, that would have been a good opportunity.

GLENN: Hmm.

MICHAEL: And I got another audition. I called my mom. And I said, Mom, this doesn't happen often. Can you believe it? She said, Michael, calm down.

The one thing I need you to do. I need you to fast, and I need you to pray.

I said, yes, ma'am.

A week later, I was having lunch with Jon Erwin. And he -- it kind of took off from there.

But, yeah, fasting and prayer.

GLENN: You know, I'm friends with.
I went to school with Jim Caviezel. And I can't remember what grade he was in. Maybe fifth grade, I think. But he went into church, and all by himself.

And he prayed, and he made a pact with God. Let me -- all I want, Lord, is to play you in a movie some day, and I will live my life honorably to be able to be ready, but I want to play you.

And so he told me when Mel called, he was like, yeah, I've been waiting for the call. It's an amazing thing.

MICHAEL: Wow. I didn't know that story. That's beautiful.

GLENN: Yeah. What do you think it is about the story about -- this was the number one show -- number one series on -- on Amazon -- on Amazon Prime this year.

What is it about the series that you think is connecting?

MICHAEL: You know, I -- I think it's different for everybody.

But I'll tell you for me.

The reason why this show means a lot to me, is because, David points us to Christ.

And -- and David is -- is a person.

He to me, is the embodiment to what it means to be human.

And to make mistakes. And find forgiveness.

It's a complex, long story.

But he was a man that -- that -- he's known as the man after God's own heart.

So for people to see that example. To see, to see the man that God loved so much, that Jesus himself was -- son of David.

I think that's what -- they see the Holy Spirit in the show. I mean, that's what I see.
And that's who I do it for.

GLENN: It's -- it's -- it's amazing to me, how -- with the exception of one, the Bible -- every single hero is so deeply flawed.

And David is so good, so good, and then, you know, becomes really, really does one of the worst things I think I've ever read in the Bible. I mean, just really bad.

MICHAEL: Yeah.

GLENN: Are you going to play -- do you have any idea, assuming the ratings are there, how long of the story you're going to tell?

MICHAEL: I really don't know. I mean, we're just trying to get to season two right now in the release.

Hopefully, pray for us, that we can get to season three, and we can keep telling the story.

I don't know what Erwin and Gunn have. What they're picking up. But I pray that we tell as much of the story as possible. I think it's important to see both the good and the bad. Like you said, to see this flawed human being, to see someone make mistakes, and to see them get back up and repent.

And ask for forgiveness. And find grace in God. So we'll see!

Pray for us.

GLENN: You -- I read some place that you were a Broadway guy. And I thought, this career is not over yet.

I mean, are you prepared to always be David?

I mean, the guy who is playing Jesus now. Jim Caviezel said, it took years before he was allowed to play anything else.

And I can't remember the guy who was playing Jesus his whole life. He is Jesus to a lot of people. Are you prepared to this be you for the rest of your life now?

And not, you know, going -- going back and doing other things, if that's the way it is?

MICHAEL: You know what, God has taken me through so much in my life, that I'm sure he's going to get me through this.

And if I'm known as the guy who plays David, I think it's actually a blessing. And I don't know what God has in store, but I trust him.

GLENN: Yeah.

MICHAEL: When that time comes, I will worry about it then. But nor for now, I'm having a great time portraying one of my favorite people.

GLENN: I just have to ask you a personal question. One for me. My daughter wants to be on Broadway. Can you talk her out of it in 30 seconds, please?

MICHAEL: Oh, man, I don't know if I want to talk her out of it.

GLENN: Okay. Well, time for you to go now.
(laughter)
Michael, thank you so much, and we're looking forward -- when does it premiere? Is it this weekend? Is it out?

MICHAEL: Well, episode eight is out on Warner Project on Prime this Sunday. Yeah.

GLENN: Okay. Good. Good.

Well, we'll be watching. Thank you so much, Michael. I appreciate it.
MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Glenn. Have a good one. Take care.
GLENN: You bet. If you haven't seen the first season, you really should see it.

It's really, really good. It's one of those that I started watching, you know.

And I stopped because I was like, wait.

Tania, we should watch this together. And she came home. And so we started watching it, and I think we watched the whole season in one weekend.

It's one of those. It's really good. Season two premieres this Sunday.