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Glenn Reveals New Details About His Mother's Suicide Following the Conviction of Michelle Carter

As any longtime listener of Glenn's knows, he has very personal experiences with suicide.

"When you are suicidal, I'm sorry, but all reason has broken down. And I know this, as a guy who has had two suicides in his family and has been suicidal himself," Glenn said Monday on radio. "When you actually go through it, all reason breaks down. You really do believe that if you were gone, everyone around you would be happy. That you are the source of all problems."

In the wake of the Michelle Carter conviction, some are reporting that the young woman who urged her friend to commit suicide should go free, that she had no direct responsibility. However, Glenn shared new insight into his own mother's suicide as a way to contrast innocence with guilt.

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"The family had done everything that they could and she wouldn't take any of the advice. And she wasn't doing what she was supposed to do. And one day, she went over to my aunt's house and my aunt was very frustrated with my mother," Glenn said. "My mother said, you know, Joanne, 'I'm just going to do it.' And my aunt looked at my mother and said, 'You know what, Mary, then just do it.'"

Glenn's mother died just a few days later.

"Now, that's not what her advice was. Her advice the whole time was, 'Seek help. Get help. We're here for you. But you have to change your life.' She was tired of hearing what she thought was an empty threat," Glenn shared.

Glenn's aunt carried that burden for decades after his mother died.

"My aunt immediately thought, 'Oh, my gosh, and I told her to do it.' No, sweetheart, you didn't. You didn't," Glenn said.

Michelle Carter, on the other hand, repeatedly encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself and offered no assistance while she listened to him die over the phone.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: We're talking about this girl who Friday was convicted of involuntary manslaughter because she encouraged her boyfriend to commit suicide. And she was actually on the phone, encouraging him, while he did it. She listened to him.

He got out of a truck. In a garage. And he had, for months said he was going to do it, she was encouraging him for months. And he got out. He said he was afraid. Called her. She said, "What are you doing out of the truck? You promised you were going to do it. You're going to be fine. Get back in the truck." And listened to him while he died.

PAT: Wow.

GLENN: Horrible, horrible.

Now, the -- the conservative point of view from David French is -- is two parts. And I want to address the first part before we get to the second. The first part is, we should have compassion. And we can't regulate because it is your free choice to kill yourself. Well, yes, it is. Yes, it is.

But let me share something about my mother's suicide. I didn't know my mother was suicidal -- none of us kids knew that she was suicidal. But my grandparents did. My aunt did.

And she had encouraged her to get help, et cetera, et cetera. And she apparently -- in the last year of her life -- had threatened this a lot. And the family had done everything that they could. And she wouldn't take any of the advice. And she wasn't doing what she was supposed to do. And one day, my -- she went over to my aunt's house. And my aunt was very frustrated with my mother.

And she said -- my mother said, you know, Joanne, "I'm just going to do it." And my aunt looked at my mother and said, "You know what, Mary, then just do it." Now, that's not what her advice was. Her advice the whole time was, "Seek help. Get help. We're here for you. But you have to change your life." She was tired of hearing what she thought was an empty threat, just to, what? Gain sympathy, or whatever. She didn't understand it.

My aunt carried that around for decades after my mother died because my mother committed suicide about -- I think it was five days later. Four or five days later. And my aunt immediately thought, "Oh, my gosh, and I told her to do it."

No, sweetheart, you didn't. You didn't.

You said something very human in a moment of frustration with a sister who had been threatening to do it for a long time and you supported for years.

PAT: And that's a different thing that we're talking about.

GLENN: Totally different. So I understand because partly I'm afraid that you -- you have a moment like that, and anybody could be blamed for it. And that's not what we're talking about. This is somebody who over months was encouraging.

Now, the second part of his argument is where it gets dangerous. And it gets dangerous because we no longer have a right and wrong. We no longer have a moral foundation for our country and for us as humans. We can't agree on what is right and wrong. So we need a judge to do it.

And don't think that there will be people that will use this case to make all kinds of points. And here's where David French makes sense...

STU: He says: Second, the First Amendment implications are real with this verdict. Carter's actions -- the girl's actions -- were reprehensible, but she was sharing with him thoughts and opinions that he might have found persuasive, but had the capacity to reject. A legal argument that renders otherwise protected speech unlawful because it actually persuades would blast a hole in First Amendment jurisprudence.

When a young man dies, especially under these circumstances, the desire to hold someone accountable is entirely understandable. But the law can't and shouldn't try to right every wrong. Michelle Carter should go free. That's his argument.

Now -- because, think about this in the perspective of what happened last week. You know, let's just say the other way it happened. A crazy right-wing person who was influenced by all sorts of propaganda for --

GLENN: They would be using this --

STU: This case.

GLENN: This case to go after people -- let's say, instead of Rachel Maddow, he was listening to me. They would use this case to go after me.

STU: Uh-huh. They would have gone after you.

Your speech -- if they had -- if he had called in and you had talked to him and encouraged him to take action, and even though it wasn't violent action, they would use that -- they would take this --

GLENN: Let's use this as true despicable speech. On the so-called right, Alex Jones and Ping-pong Pizza.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: Or the woman who went up and -- what did she do, threaten the life of one of the Newton parents?

PAT: Yeah, from Florida.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: From Florida. Who said she was listening to Alex Jones and he inspired her to go up and take care of these lying Newton parents. Well, doesn't he play some role?

In all honesty, yes. But don't we have free choice? Yes. So what is the answer? We go there, next.

[break]

GLENN: Congressman Steve Scalise has had several surgeries and is doing better today. That is really good news. And tomorrow, I'm going to show you -- I really believe Divine Providence kicked in last week. A week ago, Tuesday, was the shooting at the ballpark. Was it Tuesday, or was it Wednesday? It was Tuesday, wasn't it? No, because Bill O'Reilly was on last Tuesday. So it was Wednesday, I think.

And we're going to do a special episode. I've asked some fiction writers, some thriller writes, some politicians, some media experts, all of whom will remain nameless, "Tell me what you think could have happened if we were, this last weekend, burying 30 congressmen and senators, what would be happening in the world right now?"

It's pretty bleak. And I'm only showing you this because I want to show you how close to the edge we really are. But I may not make it to that show to be able to tell you that. Why?

Breaking news this morning: We shot down a Syrian -- not airliner -- fighter jet. We shot it down. Russia has responded this morning with this news: We will shoot down any American plane -- what is it?

PAT: West of the Euphrates.

GLENN: West of the Euphrates. They have also stopped the hotline between our military. There was a hotline between us because this is a very tight airspace. And it's easy to make a mistake. And so we've had a hotline between our -- our, you know, flight directors, if you will, "Hey, your plane is over here. Sorry, didn't mean to. Please don't shoot it down. Not hostile."

STU: Yeah, conflict resolution, basically.

GLENN: Correct. A way for us to communicate with each other. Russia has just shut that down and said, "We will take that as a hostile act, anything west of the Euphrates." Gang, I believe we are either at war or we are really, really close to war.

STU: Yeah.

GLENN: And it is -- it is not going to be like it was in, you know, Afghanistan, or is in Afghanistan. One of these wars that you can just, "Oh, well, we're at war with another country," and you don't pay attention to. This changes the entire world.

We'll get into that in a second. The reason why I'm bringing up this -- this woman who encouraged her boyfriend, or this girl who encouraged her boyfriend to kill himself, for months, is because you are not in your right mind.

When you are suicidal, I'm sorry, but all reason has broken down. And I know this, as a guy who has had two suicides in his family and has been suicidal himself. I was suicidal -- I've never been suicidal since we've known each other, have I?

PAT: No, it was just before.

GLENN: It was just before. It was in the '80s. And I had depression. My whole family is prone to clinical depression. And in the '80s, before I knew about medication -- they were still using things like Elavil, which is a really kind of nasty drug, to help you with -- with depression -- I've told you before, I've gone through it. If I wasn't -- I always say that cowardice saved my life. But I thank God that I'm a coward.

I couldn't think about putting a gun to my head. I just couldn't have done it. I looked at a pillar of a bridge abutment on 84 in Louisville, Kentucky. I passed it every single day. And every single day, both to and from work, I prayed, "Lord, give me the strength to plow my car into that." He never did, thank God.

And when you actually go through it, all reason breaks down. You really do believe that if you were gone, everyone around you would be happy. That you are the source of all problems.

It's like I would read my own press. And you are the source of all problems.

(chuckling)

And that is true to you. And no amount of, "Get over it. Just be happy. Go see a happy movie. Let's go out and have fun." None of that makes a difference.

No reason will penetrate.

The second thing that you think is -- and this is where it gets -- this is where suicide becomes real. You just want the pain to stop. If you've ever -- you know what, I hate to minimize it, but as somebody who has gone through it, I think I'm allowed to do it. It's like the moment right before you vomit.

No, I'm sorry, like two minutes before you vomit, to where you're like, "Oh, just let me vomit. I just want this to be over." And then that moment, as you're getting closer to it, you're like, "No, no. No. Okay. Okay. Okay. I don't want to vomit." Okay?

There is -- you just want it to stop. And nothing you've tried will make it stop. So, A, you're not in your right mind. And what she did was incite. She went and personally incited that person.

That's different. Because she's -- you can't say something like that to somebody who is not in their right mind, because they will do it. And you're inciting. And it's literal incitement.

So what is the cure for this? Let me start here. Man's love for man is cold. Men's hearts are failing them.

Men's hearts are -- are cold to their fellow man. We don't care as much about each other. We're tired of hearing the arguments. We're tired of hearing the whining. We're tired of all of this stuff.

And so we're just sick of it, and we want it to stop. Does that sound familiar? Because that sounds like the mind of a suicidal person, except we're not suicidal. We just don't mind if other people get out of our way, no matter what it takes. Just shut up.

That's man's love for man going cold. And our heart has failed us, because as David French said, "We have to have compassion." And it's wrong when compassion isn't offered.

But we're not working on compassion at all.

I wrote something yesterday. I got out of church, and I went home. And I wrote something that I want to share with you, that -- that is really -- known before the Greeks were around in philosophy.

But it just hit me clearly yesterday, that this is where we are.

In life, but especially in times of strife, you will not rise to the level of your expectations or desire.

So think of this. Think this through with me: In life, we all think we are -- or expect that when things get tough, we're going to stand up. We're going to be the one. Oh, we'll do that. Oh, I would have stopped slavery.

And we would -- we all expect to rise to a certain level. But it is true that in life, especially in times of strife, you're not going to rise to the level of your expectations or desire. Instead, you will fall to the level of your preparation.

You're not suddenly going to become Hercules. You're going to become the person that you've prepared yourself to be.

So what have you prepared for? What have you mentally done the homework on?

It goes back to my father and the most important thing I think my father -- well, one of the most important things my father taught me. Should make a list of those.

One of the things he taught me was, "Glenn, you don't want to be like me. I promise you, if you don't replace everything that I have taught you about being a father, you're going to be exactly like me."

And that is true. I was very much like my father. A good dad, just not a dad that was very present, in any way.

Until I started to replace that image of what it means to be a good dad and actually replaced it with things that I could see, things that I could understand, things that I could follow in good times and bad -- I prepared myself to be a better dad than I -- than my father was. I had to prepare myself for it. I had to do the things to -- to not say, "Oh, well, I'm just going to be better than that." No, you're not.

I'm just going to be better. No, you are not going to be better than your mom or your dad. You're not, unless you've done the homework to be better. You're not going to be the person that stands up and saves the world, unless you've prepared to be that person.

You're not go back to the person that can rally everyone around the cause and lead them away from the cliff, unless you've prepared to be that person. Corrie ten -- Corrie ten Boom. Paulina in Poland that saved all of those Jews, that I quote all the time. Glenn, you misunderstand. The righteous didn't suddenly become righteous, they just refused to go over the cliff with everyone else.

Well, why is that? If you look at those who saved, those who were really, truly righteous, there was always something -- Oskar Schindler, what was his motivation?

At first, it was to make money. He had prepared himself to be a great capitalist. And to be a great capitalist and prepare himself to succeed no matter what was going on, at first, Oskar Schindler just took advantage of the cheap labor. He didn't rise to the expectations. He fell to where he was prepared.

He saw an opportunity, and he took it. Paulina. Corrie ten Boom. Their parents prepared them to be those kinds of people because they studied the Scriptures because they prayed all the time, because they used real examples. Because they actually went out and helped people. And their compassion for others was fostered. You just don't have compassion for others in this society.

We're swimming in a sea of filth. We're swimming in a sea that shows no compassion. Our video games. It's deadening the compassion because it's not -- they're not real. Nothing is real to us anymore.

Where does food believe from, gang? Food comes from the supermarket. When you go and talk to kids -- especially in the -- in the cities, and you ask them, "Where does meat come from?" They will tell you, "From the store."

Yes, but where does the store get it?

From the meat place?

What is meat?

They can't tie it to a farm. They can't tie it to an animal. We're not preparing our children for anything.

You will fall to the level of your preparation. You will not rise to the level of your expectations.

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INSIDE Trump’s soul: How a bullet changed his heart forever

“I have a new purpose,” then-candidate Donald Trump told reporter Salena Zito after surviving the assassination attempt in Butler, Pennsylvania. Salena joins Glenn Beck to reveal what Trump told her about God, his purpose in life, and why he really said, “Fight! Fight! Fight!”, as she details in her new book, “Butler: The Untold Story of the Near Assassination of Donald Trump and the Fight for America's Heartland”.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Salena, congratulations on your book. It is so good.

Just started reading it. Or listening to it, last night.

And I wish you would have -- I wish you would have read it. But, you know, the lady you have reading it is really good.

I just enjoy the way you tell stories.

The writing of this is the best explanation on who Trump supporters are. That I think I've ever read, from anybody.

It's really good.

And the description of your experience there at the edge of the stage with Donald Trump is pretty remarkable as well. Welcome to the program.

SALENA: Thank you, Glenn. Thank you so much for having me.

You know, I was thinking about this, as I was ready to come on. You and I have been along for this ride forever. For what?

Since 2006? 2005?

Like 20 years, right?

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah.

SALENA: And I've been chronicling the American people for probably ten more years, before that. And it's really remarkable to me, as watching how this coalition has grown. Right?

And watching how people have the -- have become more aspirational.

And that's -- and that is what the conservative populist coalition is, right?

It is the aspirations of many, but the celebration of the individual.

And chronicling them, yeah. Has been -- has been, a great honor.

GLENN: You know, I was thinking about this yesterday, when -- when Elon Musk said he was starting another party.

And somebody asked me, well, isn't he doing what the Tea Party tried to do?

No. The Tea Party was not going to start a new party.

It was to -- you know, it was to coerce and convince the Republican Party to do the right thing. And it worked in many ways. It didn't accomplish what we hoped.

But it did accomplish a lot of things.

Donald Trump is a result of the Tea Party.

I truly believe that. And a lot of the people that were -- right?

Were with Donald Trump, are the people that were with the Tea Party.


SALENA: That's absolutely right.

So that was the inception.

So American politics has always had movements, that have been just outside of a party. Or within a party.

That galvanize and broaden the coalition. Right? They don't take away. Or walk away, and become another party.

If anything, if there is a third party out there, it's almost a Republican Party.

Because it has changed in so many viable and meaningful ways. And the Tea Party didn't go away. It strengthened and broadened the Republican Party. Because these weren't just Republicans that became part of this party.

It was independents. It was Democrats.

And just unhappy with the establishment Republicans. And unhappy with Democrats.

And that -- that movement is what we -- what I see today.

What I see every day. What I saw that day, in butler, when I showed I happen at that rally.

As I do, so many rallies, you know, throughout my career. And that one was riveting and changed everything.

GLENN: You made a great case in the opening chapter. You talk about how things were going for Donald Trump.

And how this moment really did change everything for Donald Trump.

Changed the trajectory, changed the mood.

I mean, Elon Musk was not on the Trump train, until this.

SALENA: Yeah.

GLENN: Moment. What do I -- what changed? How -- how did that work?

And -- and I contend, that we would have much more profound change, had the media actually done their job and reported this the way it really was. Pragmatism

SALENA: You know, and people will find this in the book. I'm laying on the ground with an agent on top of me.

I'm 4 feet away from the president.

And there's -- there's notices coming up on my phone. Saying, he was hit by broken glass.

And to this take, that remains part of this sibling culture, in American politics.

Because reporters were -- were so anxious to -- to right what they believed happened.

As opposed to what happened.

And it's been a continual frustration of mine, as a reporter, who is on the ground, all the time.

And I'll tell you, what changed in that moment.

And I say a nuance, and I believe nuance is dead in American journalism.

But it was a nuance and it was a powerful conversation, that I had with President Trump, the next day. He called me the next morning.

But it's a powerful conversation I had with him, just two weeks ago.

When he made this decision to say, fight, fight, fight.

People have put in their heads, why they think he said it. But he told me why he said that. And he said, Salena, in that moment, I was not Donald Trump the man. I was a former president. I was quite possibly going to be president again.

And I had an obligation to the country, and to the office that I have served in, to project strength. To project resolve.

To project that we will not be defeated.

And it's sort of like a symbolic eagle, that is always -- you know, that symbol that we look at, when we think about our country.

He said, that's why I said that. I didn't want the people behind me panicking. I didn't want the people watching, panicking.

I had to show strength. And it's that nuance -- that I think people really picked up on.

And galvanized people.

GLENN: So he told me, when he was laying down on the stage.

And you can hear him. Let me get up. Let me get up.

I've got to get up.

He told me, as I was laying on the stage. I asked him, what were you thinking? What was going through your head? Now, Salena, I don't know about you.

But with me. It would be like, how do I get off the stage? My first was survival.

He said, what was going on through his mind was, you're not pathetic. This is pathetic.

You're not afraid. Get up.

Get up.

And so is that what informed his fight, fight, fight, of that by the time that he's standing up, he's thinking, I'm a symbol? Or do you think he was thinking, I'm a symbol, this looks pathetic. It makes you look weak.

Stand up. How do you think that actually happened?

SALENA: He thinks, and we just talked about this weeks ago. He -- you know, and this is something that he's really thought about.

Right? You know, he's gone over and over and over. And also, purpose and God. Right? These are things that have lingered with him.

You know, he -- he thought, yes.

He did think, it was pathetic that he was on the ground. But he wasn't thinking about, I'm Donald Trump. It's pathetic.

He's thinking, my country is symbolically on the ground. I need to get up, and I need to show that my country is strong.

That our country is resolute.

And I need people to see that.

We can't go on looking like pathetic.

Right?

And I think that then goes to that image of Biden.

GLENN: You have been with so many presidents.

How many presidents do you think that you've personally been with, would have thought that and reacted that way?

SALENA: Probably only Reagan. Reagan would have. Reagan probably would have thought that.

And if you remember how he was out like standing outside.

You know, waving out the window. Right?

After he was shot.

GLENN: At the hospital, right.

SALENA: Had he not been knocked out, unconscious, you know, he probably would have done the same thing.

Because he was someone who deeply believed in American exceptionalism.

And American exceptionalism does not go lay on the ground.

GLENN: And the symbol.

Right. The symbol of the presidency.

SALENA: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think that affects him today.

GLENN: So let me go back to God.

Because you talked to him the next day. And your book Butler.

He calls you up.

I love the fact that your parents would be ashamed of you. On what you said to him.

The language you used. That you just have to read the book.

It's just a great part.

But he calls you the next morning. And wants to know if you're okay.

And you -- you then start talking to him, about God.

And I was -- I was thinking about this, as I was listening to it. You know, Lincoln said, I wasn't -- I wasn't a Christian.

Even though, he was.

I wasn't a Christian, when I was elected. I wasn't a Christian when my son died.

I became a Christian at Gettysburg.

Is -- is -- I mean, I believe Donald Trump always believes in God, et cetera, et cetera.

Do you think there was a real profound change at Butler with him?


SALENA: Absolutely. You know, he called me seven times that day. Seven times, the take after seven.

GLENN: Crazy.

SALENA: Talked about. And I think he was looking for someone that he knew, that was there. And to try to sort it out.

Right? And I let him do most of the talking. I didn't pressure him.

At all. I believed that he was having -- you know, he was struggling. And he needed to just talk. And I believed my purpose was to listen.

Right? I know other reporters would have handled it differently. And that's okay. That's not the kind of reporter that I am.

And I myself was having my own like, why didn't I die?

Right?

Because it went right over my head.

And -- and so I -- he had the conversation about God.

He's funny. I thought it was the biggest mosquito in the world that hit me.

But he had talked profoundly about purpose. You know, and God.

And how God was in that moment.

It --

GLENN: I love the way you -- in the book, I love the way you said that as he's kind of working it out in his own he head.

He was like, you know, I -- I -- I always knew that there was some sort of, you know -- that God was present.

He said, but now that this has happened.

I look back at all of the trials.

All of the tribulations. Literally, the trials.

All of the things that have happened. And he's like, I realized God was there the whole time.

SALENA: Yes. He does. And it's fascinating to have been that witness to history, to have those conversations with him. Because I'm telling you. And y'all know, I can talk. I didn't say much of anything.

I just -- I just listened. I felt that was my purpose, in that moment.

To give him that space, to work it out.

I'm someone that is, you know, believes in God.

I'm Catholic. I followed my faith.

And -- and so, I thought, well, this is why God put me here. Right?

And to -- to have that -- to hear him talk about purpose, to hear him say, Salena. Why did I put a chart down?

I'm like, sir. I don't know. I thought you were Ross Perot for a second.

He never has a chart. And he laughed. And then he said, why did I put that chart down?

By that term, I never turned my head away from people at the rally. That's true.

That relationship is very transactional. It's very -- they feed off of each other.

It's a very emotive moment when you attend a rally. Because he has a way of talking at a rally. That you believe that you are seeing.

And he said, and I never turn my head away.

I never turn my head away.

Why did I turn my head away?

I don't remember consciously thinking about turning my head away. And then he says to me, that was God, wasn't it?

Yes, sir. It was. It was God.

And he said, that's -- that's why I have a new purpose.

And so, Glenn. I think it's important, when you look at the breadth of what has happened, since he was sworn in.

You see that purpose, every day.

He doesn't let up.

He continues going.

And it brings back to the beginning of the book.

Where you find out, that there was another president that was shot at in Butler.

And that was George Washington. And how different the country would have been, had he died in that moment.

And now think about how different the country would be, had President Trump died in that moment. There would be --

GLENN: We're talking to -- we're talking to Salena Zito. About her new book called Butler. The assassination attempt on President Trump. And it is riveting.

And, you know, it is so good. I wish the press would read it. Because it really explains who we are, who Trump supporters are. Who are, you know, red staters. It is so good at that. She's the best at that.