BLOGMay 09, 2017

The Untold, Pivotal Role Faith Played in Jackie Robinson's Life

Ed Henry, chief national correspondent for Fox News Channel, joined Glenn on radio Tuesday to talk about his new book 42 Faith: The Rest of the Jackie Robinson Story. While the 2013 movie 42 was excellent, it barely covered a key component to the Jackie Robinson story: faith. Henry set out to correct the record.

"I found out new information, which is why I wrote this book," Henry relayed. "Branch Rickey, right before signing Jackie to the first contract in 1945, secretly had doubts --- he had second thoughts, he almost pulled out. But it was a secret meeting with the minister in Brooklyn at a wonderful church that still stands today, Plymouth Church, which was a stop on the Underground Railroad in the 1800s."

The iconic church was pivotal in ending slavery in the 1800s, as well as launching the career of Jackie Robinson, the first African-American player in Major League Baseball, in the 1940s. In 42 Faith: The Rest of the Jackie Robinson Story, Henry explained how Rickey, the general manager of the Brooklyn Dodgers, needed to be in the presence of God to know he was doing the right thing.

"After pacing and praying on all of this . . . Branch Rickey finally sits down, starts crying and says to the minister, I've decided to sign Jackie to the first contract," Henry said.

Throughout Jackie Robinson's life, faith played a major role --- saving him as a young man and changing the course of history as a baseball player.

It took Henry nearly 10 years to research and write the book in his downtime. 42 Faith: The Rest of the Jackie Robinson Story is available in bookstores everywhere.

Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.

GLENN: Welcome to the program, Ed Henry. How are you, sir?

ED: Good. Thanks for having me on, Glenn.

GLENN: You bet. I would love to talk to you about politics and what you see going on. But I really want to spend some time talking about Jackie Robinson. Because I think until we get the story of America right and the story of our heroes, we're never going to be able to -- we're playing games, and we're never going to be able to fix our country.

ED: Yeah.

GLENN: So I'm glad you're here. And your book is absolutely fantastic. I don't -- I don't follow -- you know, I don't follow sports. But even I know who Jackie Robinson is.

ED: Uh-huh.

GLENN: At least that's what I thought until I read your book.

ED: Well, I appreciate that because I think there's a whole lot more to the story.

And Hollywood doesn't want, as you know, better than anyone, to touch faith and God. They don't want to talk about that. And so there was a movie, 42, about Jackie Robinson and Branch Rickey, the general manager of the Brooklyn Dodgers, who signed him to the first contract to break the color barrier in major legal baseball, which obviously, as you suggest did not just change sports. It changed America for the better, forever.

GLENN: Yeah.

ED: But Hollywood, you know, the 42 movie was wonderful. But it did not -- it barely mentioned God. I found out new information, which is why I wrote this book, that Branch Rickey, right before signing Jackie to the first contract in 1945, secretly had doubts. He had second thoughts. He almost pulled out. But it was a secret meeting with the minister in Brooklyn at a wonderful church that still stands today, Plymouth Church, which was a stop on the Underground Railroad in the 1800s.

So when you talk about getting our history right, this was a pivotal church in helping end slavery in the 1800s. And then in 1945, Branch Rickey, I learned -- and it's in 42 Faith -- basically goes to this minister and says, "I don't know if I can go through with this," because this was such a controversial move in '45 to move to integrate Major League Baseball. And after pace and praying on all of this, a 45-minute meeting that I uncover the details of, which this minister in Brooklyn, Branch Rickey finally sits down, starts crying and says to the minister, I've decided to sign Jackie to the first contract. I needed to be in your presence, he says to the minister. I needed to be in God's presence to know it was the right thing to do. I thought --

GLENN: Okay. So if this were story were told today or happened today, here's how this story would be spun: That Branch Rickey wanted to do it because he was going to have all kinds of publicity and that would be good for the club. And he made this pilgrimage to a black church that was a perfect church because of the history so everybody would know. And he was only doing this for show.

ED: Yeah.

GLENN: Correct?

ED: Yeah, I think --

GLENN: Correct that.

ED: Correct, that that would be the way it might be played now. But the fact of the matter is what this led me to do was go on a journey and think and figure out and research. And I spent almost ten years doing this on the side, you know, on the back-burner, while covering politics, as you said at the top. It made me say, wait a second, how much did God and faith in God play in this monumental decision, that, again, wasn't just baseball? But maybe more importantly, how much did faith play in helping Jackie Robinson overcome people shouting the N-word at him, literally threatening his life because he wanted to play baseball.

And I found a lot of new information. I'll tell you one quick story about Branch Rickey. In the early 1900s, he grows up on a farm in Ohio, along the Kentucky border. And he goes to his mom, Branch Rickey does, and says, I want to become a Big League ballplayer. She says no. She was a Methodist and said, "All baseball players do is drink and swear and party, and you're not doing that."

Well, Branch Rickey goes back to her the next day. This is somebody who didn't take no for an answer obviously, or he might have backed down and not integrated the game of baseball, decades later. But in the early 1900s, he said, mom, if you let me chase my dream to play Big League Baseball, I will never play on Sunday.

And do you know that Rickey became a big league player before he was a famous executive? A lot of people don't know that. He never played on Sunday. It's one reason why he got cut because owners of various teams said, "Why am I paying you a full week's salary when you won't play on Sunday to honor God?"

And then fast-forward to after he signs Jackie Robinson, and he's this famous executive for the Brooklyn Dodgers. I interviewed Branch Rickey's grandson. Branch Rickey III, who is still alive, he said that in the '40s and '50s, Rickey would never go to Ebbets Field on Sunday, even though he was running the team. His parents had died. Glenn, he had already -- that commitment he made to his parents was basically null and void, but he felt like he needed to honor that. That shows commitment, character, we don't see today. It shows a commitment to God that people are frankly scared to talk about and say out loud today. But Branch Rickey and Jackie Robinson, they were one white, one black, different generations. Didn't have a lot in common, but they both had a deep faith in God. And that's why I think there's a lot more to this story that people didn't want to talk about.

GLENN: So let's talk about Jackie Robinson. I had absolutely no idea that, A, he was a Sunday teacher and that he gave a lot of sermons.

ED: Yes. And I want to tell you about some of them. First of all, in terms of Sunday school, this is a man, Jackie Robinson, who grow up -- you know, he's raised by a single mom in Pasadena, California. We hear about this a lot today, not just in the African-American community. Communities all around the country. And say, "Well, these kids end up joining gangs. And they've got no hope." Well, guess what, Jackie Robinson joined a gang. He's a teenager in Pasadena. He has a criminal record. He was arrested several times, Glenn. And people don't know that about the story. And you know how he got out of it? His mom Mali, Mali Robinson was a woman of faith. She happened also to be a Methodist, like Branch Rickey and his family. Interesting connection. Coincidental perhaps, but still interesting.

And a Christian minister named Reverend Carl Downs in Pasadena pulled Jackie aside as a teenager and said, "You're going the wrong way. Unless you get your life back on track, you're going to waste all this athletic talent."

So the Sunday school you mentioned is, I find in my research that Jackie becomes this four-letter man at UCLA: Baseball, basketball, football, and track and field. He stars as a football player at UCLA on Saturdays. Gets up Sunday.

He's a running back. So he's beaten and bruised, like any other running back. And what does he do on Sunday morning? Gets out of bed. Gets off that UCLA campus and goes back to Pasadena in order to teach Sunday school with the Reverend Carl Downs. This minister had saved his life, and he felt like he had a commitment to him.

Again, to me, there was a wonderful parallel there with Branch Rickey about that commitment to his parents about faith and not playing. Not working on Sundays.

Jackie Robinson -- how many athletes today, either college or pro, get out of bed on Sunday morning and say, you know, I'm going to teach Sunday school before I go to the game or before I do this or that? This is somebody who gave back and understood it. We can get into the sermons as well that he did after his playing days. But I think faith in God is at the center of the story and that's why we call it 42 Faith.

GLENN: I will tell you that I teach Sunday school, and it is impossible -- almost every week, I think, I'm going to call in sick. I just -- I've got so many things going on. Blah, blah. I'm not Jackie Robinson.

ED: Right.

GLENN: Jackie Robinson is not only playing and doing all these things, but also, throughout his life, he is pushed up against the wall. When he first comes out and he's set to make his debut, there's a sniper that has threatened and said --

ED: Yep.

GLENN: -- I'm taking him out. If he steps up to bat, I'm taking him out.

ED: Yep.

And you know what happened? We see in the movie, 42, that there white players from the deep South who circulated a petition and said, "If Jackie gets promoted to the Big Leagues in 1947, we're going to walk." And so we can't sanitize that history. There were white players, teammates who didn't want to play with them.

But you know what I found in my research is there were white teammates like Ralph Branca, a very tall pitcher. And you're right. There were these reports that came into the Dodgers. April 15th, 1947. This is now the 17th anniversary that we're celebrating, of Jackie's first game. He said, there's a sniper. Going to be at Ebbets Field. They're going to kill Jackie when he goes on the field.

And Ralph Branca made a show on the field of standing next to Jackie and kind of throwing his arm around him. And Jackie, thankfully, is not shot. But after the game, one of Branca's brothers comes rushing up to him. He had a big family.

Said, Ralphie, what were you thinking? You were standing right next to this guy. This black player, who was going to get shot. There's a sniper out there, and you were standing next to him. What are you thinking?

And he said, there are worse ways to go than to stand up for a teammate. That was a white pitcher. He was like 6-3, 6-4. He was a big target for a sniper. That's why I mentioned his height.

And yet this white player said, I'm going to stand up for a black teammate. That to me is all about not just faith, but about America, number one. And, number two, you talk about commitment from Jackie. You talk about yourself teaching Sunday school. Jackie's wife Rachel is still alive, about 95 years old. And she remembers that first year when Jackie had snipers out there. He had people sending him letters, saying, we're going to kill you. People shouting the N-word from the stands.

She says that after playing at Ebbets Field every day -- afternoon, he would take the subway home to the small apartment they had in Manhattan. And before he went to bed, do you know what Jackie Robinson, this famous ballplayer did? She says he got down on his hands and knees and prayed to God.

And I think, again, that commitment -- I'm not saying that faith was the only thing that enabled him to play in the athletics field. He had courage. He had character. But faith in God was at the center of Jackie Robinson's life. And it was not something that a lot of people talked about before for various reasons. And I think that image of this famous ballplayer getting on his hands and knees, praying to God every night before bed, shows that he got that. He understood that despite his fame, despite him becoming a civil rights icon, he was imperfect and still wanted to bow down before God.

GLENN: I will tell you that I know -- Penn Jillette is a friend of mine, an atheist, and he has courage and principles. And I know a lot of religious people who don't have courage and principles. But somebody like Jackie Robinson, it's hard to believe that it didn't -- that wasn't what was really driving. We're talking to Ed Henry of the Fox News Channel. Written a new book called 42 Faith: The Rest of the Jackie Robinson Story.

As you were researching this, did anybody come to mind at all? Are you seeing these people, Ed, in your everyday life? Are you seeing them anywhere in positions of power?

ED: No. I think that's something that -- and I'm an optimistic story. But as someone -- as I research, as I thought about men of character like Branch Rickey, like Jackie Robinson, like Ralph Branca, who I mentioned, who stood up on faith -- and, you know, you mentioned the sermons that Jackie gave. I mean, I found in his personal papers at the Library of Congress, all of these sermons that Jackie gave at churches all across America in the 1960s. He had hung up his glove in the beginning at '57. The baseball glove. So in the '60s, he's retired. He's working for Chock Full O' Nuts. He makes the baseball Hall of Fame. But, again, he gives back. He goes to churches. Not just black churches, but churches all around America. And let me read one quick passage, where he talked about how he was skeptical about federal government assistance programs being what would help deal with the civil rights crisis, would deal with the long hot summer of 1967.

This was a sermon in '67. And he said, my dear friends in this congregation, I think the black man is just a little weary of this constant help of helping him. I think to a large degree, the poverty programs have fallen flat on their face, coming to resemble just some more handouts, a cut higher than welfare.

God helps mankind, Jackie Robinson said. But he helps those who helps himself. So here is this civil rights icon saying that in 1977. Not in a public square, but in a church, number one, Glenn. And number two, 1967, 50 years ago. Think about that statement today. We don't have a lot of people in public life saying that. And here's a black leader saying that. A black ball player who made the Hall of Fame and an icon.

GLENN: So, Ed, you and I both know what the last -- since 9/11 has been like. Especially at the Fox News Channel. You've been there for a long time, longer than I was.

ED: Yeah.

GLENN: And you know what it was like when I was there. And mainly because of me causing all the trouble. Sorry for that, by the way.

(chuckling)

GLENN: Was this --

ED: I don't know where you're going with this.

GLENN: Is this -- was this your way of searching for some sort of bedrock that made life make sense, that gave you courage to stand? Was this just a -- was this just your stamp collecting thing just to take your mind -- what happened to you with this?

ED: It started in my stamp collecting, in that I have a passion for baseball. And a lot of people ask me, "Well, why in the world did you write a baseball book?" I mean, number one, I don't think the world is begging for a book about Obamacare from Ed Henry. I don't feel like -- you know, how many politicians are out there -- no offense to any of my colleagues or anyone. And number two is, you know, it's not really a baseball book.

GLENN: Yeah.

ED: It's a book about faith in God. And I'm a Catholic. I'm imperfect. But you always strive to be better. And Jackie Robinson said in these personal papers, I found, there are better Christians than me. I'm imperfect. And here's Jackie Robinson, who's pretty darn close to perfect.

But he said, I just did the best that I knew how. Paraphrasing. And I didn't want to let down my mother or Mr. Rickey. He always called him Mr. Rickey.

And what did Mr. Rickey, the general manager have in common with Jackie Robinson? Again, different generations. Different skin color. Came of age in different parts of the country. But they both -- you know, both the Robinson families and the Rickey families had deep faith in God. And when Jackie Robinson says, "Look, I'm not perfect, but I did the best I knew how." For me, this is a kind of project that finds some deeper meaning. And I think in Jackie Robinson, it's not just a baseball story. It's a story about life. And it's a story about how faith in God is at the center of our lives, whether people want to say it out loud or not.

GLENN: I will tell you, the book endorsed by Bill O'Reilly. Brad Thor. Juan Williams and Larry King. You couldn't get more eclectic than that. Oh, and Jim Brown. So no more eclectic than that.

ED: Jim Brown.

Well, I appreciate it.

GLENN: Ed, thank you so much. The name of the book is 41 Faith. A great read.

STU: 42 Faith.

ED: Forty-two.

GLENN: 42 Faith.

STU: That's the prequel. It's coming out next year --

GLENN: Do I understand 42 if I only read 41?

ED: 43 is going to be the best.

(laughter)

GLENN: All right.

Ed Henry, thank you very much. And much success.

ED: Thanks, buddy.

RADIO

Will the Big, Beautiful Bill’s Medicaid changes really “KILL” people?

Democrats claim that the Big, Beautiful Bill will take Medicaid and Medicare away from many Americans and even “kill” people. But is any of this true? Glenn Beck and Stu Burguiere review just the facts and explain who’s actually affected by the changes.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Can I address some of the hyperbole around the big, beautiful bill, just a little bit.

If there's anything in the big, beautiful bill to worry about, it's the increase in spending.

Because the spending ourself into oblivion is an actual threat.

To the country. But that's not what anybody is talking about. What everybody seems to be talking about is the tax cuts. Which were already there. Or the tax cuts like no tax for tips. Which you would think the party of the little people. You know, the Democrats. Would all be for. But they're not.

Because they're not party of the little people anymore. And those had to be offset.

Okay. Offset. By what?

Well, by cutting spending. But cutting what spending?

Not cutting spending. Let me just say this. If I said, you know, I made $250,000 a year. And this year, we were going to spend $300,000.
Okay?

And you would say, immediately, Glenn. You can't do that.

And I would say, I've been doing that for 30 years. Okay. You might say, the bank is not going to give a loan.

But then if I came to you and said, yeah. I'm spending $300,000 a year. And my wife and I make 250 or 200,000 a year. But, you know, next year, I was going to spend $500,000.

Did you get a raise? No. I didn't get a raise. I still make 250,000 dollars a year between my wife and I.

But I'm going to spend 500 and not 300. And then somebody came in, like an accountant with some muscle.

And they said, Glenn, you cannot spend $500,000 a year!

Would it make sense if I went back to spending 300, not 200, which I had.

But 300, which I had been spending every year, would it make sense to you to -- for me to say, my children are now going to starve? My children are now going to starve.

Look at the austerity program that I am on.

My gosh, they just -- no. They didn't cut anything. They must cut thinking.

They cut the increase inning spending.

That's what they cut.

And, Stu, could you please explain Medicare.

I mean, all of the people. I know they warned us.

I didn't believe the death squads would actually go out.

And, you know, they want these people off Medicare so badly.

Or Medicaid.

They just sent out death squads. Trump is not waiting for them to die, because he's not waiting for them to get their prescriptions now he just wants them slaughtered in the street.

STU: Yeah, that's the efficiency of the Trump administration. He wants these people dead so badly, he's just killing them in the streets. Actually, no, none of that is happening.

And the Medicaid cuts as you point out, are largely cuts to future increases that have not occurred.

The biggest chunk of this is the work requirements. You've heard this, Glenn.

And, you know, I went through this. And I was like, this can't possibly be what they mean.

I said, wait a minute. When they say work requirement cuts, what does that mean?

So I dove into it a little bit. Basically, what they're saying, you, if you're an able-bodied adult, so that does not include old people, does not include people who are sick and can't work. And it also does not include people who have small children, even if they are able-bodied.

And when I say small, I mean 12 and under. So if you have a 12-year-old. You're completely exempt from this.

But able-bodied adults.

GLENN: Okay. On people in wheelchairs.

STU: No. Gosh, again, I know this is tough. Yeah, this is where it gets difficult.

GLENN: Wait. I'm having a hard time following this. What now?.

STU: So you're an able-bodied adult, that does not have small children.

GLENN: No small children.

STU: You would be required to get Medicaid, to work 20 hours a week.

Now, you might --

GLENN: Twenty hours a week.

STU: Or 80 hours a month.

GLENN: Or 80 hours a month.

That's almost half a full-time job.

STU: Now, you might say to yourself. And this is actually true.

Some people can't get jobs. Right?

I'm sure, there are people trying to get part-time jobs. And maybe can't get them.

Those people will just lose their Medicaid. Well, as you may understand.

Of course not.

Because what you have to do then is go through a process, that you're basically telling them, you're attempting to get a job. Or you're volunteering somewhere, to meet that requirement.

So basically, you have to fill out -- yeah. It's like unemployment.

You have to at least fill out some paperwork here.

GLENN: It's the exact opposite.

Let me see if I have this right.

It's the exact opposite of unemployment which we've had forever.

Which if you're looking for a job, but can't get it. You can still have unemployment.

But it's the exact opposite. Right?

Especially if you're nursing sextuplets.

STU: Again, you're not very close to the truth.

You're a little bit off on this one.

GLENN: No. Huh!

STU: By the way, Glenn, you might say to yourself, wait. How is that a Medicaid cut?

Because they're not cutting anyone's eligibility here. Unless they don't want to meet the requirement.

Of course, there's always been requirements to all of these programs.

So meeting the requirements have always been part of getting on to Medicaid.

This requirement, if you decide basically not to do it. And not participate. And not fill out the paperwork.

Then, yes. You will lose your Medicaid coverage.

What they're saying, hold on. All right.

GLENN: No. I just want to make sure I have it right.

STU: Yes.

GLENN: If you are blind, you're deaf.

STU: No. Again, no.

GLENN: You have no friends, and you can't get out of the house, and you've been on Medicaid, somehow or another, you signed up for that. But now, you don't even know, because you can't hear the news. You certainly can't fill out a form. Because you have no eyes.

STU: Hmm.

GLENN: They just come in and rip your Medicaid away?

STU: No. None of what you said is accurate.

Though, it is calm considering some of the accusations -- comparisons made bit left right now.

But, yeah.

So if you are an able-bodied adult that decides, you know what, I don't feel like filling out the paperwork, or I don't feel like going to job interviews, or I don't feel like volunteering, then yes. You could lose -- but that's what they're saying the cuts are.

They think 317 billion dollars worth of people will not bother doing those things. For whatever reason. Maybe because they had more money than they said. Maybe because they're lazy.

Maybe because -- I'm sure there's some case where some -- I don't know.

I can't think of the case.

GLENN: Blind person.

STU: Because the ailments are covered here.

But, yes. Maybe it's some particular skin color. Then they would reject you.

I don't know.

And it's not just that. There are other cuts. For example, some of the cuts are, they're eliminate duplicate Medicaid enrollment.

If you happen to have Medicaid.

GLENN: I can't double-dip.

STU: In two different states. They're going to try to stop you from having it in two states.

And instead, make you have it one state. Uh-huh.

GLENN: Hold on just one second.

I have two legs. I have two arms. I have two eyes. I have two nostrils. I have two ears.

I can't have two Medicaid coverages. It's insane!

STU: I know.

It's really, really brutal.

GLENN: I have two kidneys. I can only have one kidney now, you know, repaired?

STU: Now --

GLENN: Is that what you're saying?

STU: That's not what I'm saying. But, yes. I'm sure that's what's being reported out there by Dana Bash.

Another one, I will give you here, Glenn. They talked about immigrants.

You know, immigrants getting on their Medicaid cut. Now, this is tough. What this bill does, I want you to hold on to your hat here, Glenn.

GLENN: Okay.

STU: If you have green card holders and other certain immigrants, some will lose their coverage. Or actually, sorry, eligibility will -- retain for those people.

Certain other immigrants may lose their coverage. The current law says, all who are lawfully present.

That will kick in after a -- how many year waiting period?

Let me guess, it's a five-year waiting period.

So it will be the next president who has to deal with this, when future Congress will just put it right back in. And it's not a savings at all.

And then you have Medicaid death checks. They're going to require --

GLENN: They're checking on whether your debt? Look at this! It's crazy.

STU: It's brutal. It really is.

GLENN: You're going to kick all of the immigrants off in five years.

STU: No.

GLENN: And then you're checking to see if old people are dead!

When will you leave these people alone?

STU: I know. So, anyway, we can go through this stuff all day. But as you point out, most of this stuff is not at all, what the left is saying it is.

It's not the desperate Medicaid cuts that are going to ruin everybody's lives. A lot of them are just really common sense stuff, making sure you don't have them in two states. I don't know what the positive argument is for that. But they'll make it.

GLENN: Well, they don't have one. That's why they don't make it about that.

RADIO

Liz Wheeler BLASTS Pam Bondi’s Epstein deception

The Department of Justice and FBI are now claiming that there NEVER was any Epstein client list and nobody else needs to be charged. But what about Attorney General Pam Bondi’s previous claim that the list was on her desk?! BlazeTV host Liz Wheeler, who had been given one of Bondi’s ill-fated “Epstein Files” binders, joins Glenn Beck to discuss how the MAGA movement should react to the claims made by Bondi, Kash Patel, and Dan Bongino.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Liz Wheeler. Liz wrote to me early today. Let me see if I can -- may I quote you here, Liz?

LIZ: Yes, you may. Thanks for having me, Glenn.

GLENN: Okay. Yeah. You bet. She said, give me one good reason why I shouldn't scream for Pam Bondi to be fired today? And this was at 5 o'clock in the morning. And I said, I'm sleepy. But I don't think I can.

I don't think I can give you a reason not to -- not to call for her firing today. But I want you to explain, why do you feel this way?

LIZ: It's not something that I say lightly. I didn't say it immediately after the White House, Epstein binder debacle. And I want to very prudently and judiciously make this case to you today and to make this case to President Trump too. Because Pam Bondi has become a liability to her administration, despite her loyalty in other areas. So let's start with the announcement from the Department of Justice last night.

A lot of us have a lot of questions about this announcement. It just doesn't ring true with a lot of us. We see a lot of evidence before our eyes that contradicts what we're being told without evidence to believe by the FBI and the Department of Justice. And it grates on us.

Because like you mentioned, we are friends with Kash Patel and Dan Bongino.

They're the good guys. We trust them.

And yet, we have to use our critical thinking faculties and look at the evidence before our eyes.

So it smells fishy. You'll notice it says nothing about whether Jeffrey Epstein was an intelligence asset.

Which, as you mentioned, Alex Acosta, the attorney who cut the sweetheart deal originally with Epstein. Said he was, before Accosta's emails mysteriously disappeared. So we have questions about that.

There are also outstanding, important questions about Kash Patel and Dan Bongino's definitive pronouncement, that Epstein killed himself.

I'm sorry. I don't think the video that they released proves definitively that they were stating that case.

GLENN: Why?

LIZ: Because it does not show what's happening in the cell. It just shows the cell door. We don't actually see him kill himself.

GLENN: Right. But we know that nobody came in.

LIZ: Through that door.

GLENN: Where are they going to go true, the little bars? Little drag la? A little bat.

LIZ: I don't know what the internal cell looks like. I don't know what they have. I don't know if they have fire escape routes. I don't know if they have adjoining doors. I don't know if they have emergency exits. I don't know if that video was doctored or not.

I don't know enough about that, to simply take that one piece of evidence.

GLENN: Okay. So that's a good point.

Just show us the room. Show us what's inside the room.

LIZ: Yes. We need more evidence.

GLENN: That's reasonable.

LIZ: One piece of evidence.

It's not enough.

GLENN: Yeah.

LIZ: The other thing, I wonder with Kash Patel and Dan Bongino are relying too much on the FBI's prior investigation to the FBI of old is a reliable narrator. I don't know who conducted those investigations, or if it was done soundly. I doubt it was done soundly.

GLENN: So may I just interject here.

LIZ: Yes.

GLENN: I talked to Dan Bongino a few weeks ago about this off-air. And, Glenn, we are turning over every stone. We are going to get to the bottom of it.

We are -- so, I mean, he led me to believe that, and I believed him. And I still do.

That he was using new resources. Opening the investigation in -- in a new way. Following it closely.

And I do believe Dan Bongino is one of the good guys.

LIZ: I do too. And I've been told the same thing by high-ranking officials in the FBI. Who I trust. They're trustworthy people.

I do think, that it might not be possible at this point, to piece together everything, because we know there have been reports of evidence, destruction.

So my issue with that definitive statement was the definitive nature of it.

This 100 percent happened this way. Epstein killed himself. Instead of saving, we don't have enough evidence to piece this together, or the evidence we have points to this.

All that being said, though, I want to talk about what happened last night.

Because this brings to us attorney general Pam Bondi, who just months ago said she had the Epstein client list on her desk.

When I went back to look at that video, the clip of her on Fox News, again, this morning, to make sure that there was not context that I was lacking, that there was not bungled phraseology, maybe nerves being on the air.

I went back and listened to it. She said definitively, she had the Epstein client list on her desk.

Now, fast forward to yesterday, she says that it doesn't exist, that they don't have it.

That is a really big problem. If I'm president today --

GLENN: Okay. Let me play this, from Bondi. This is back in February. Here is the actual statement she made.

Listen.

VOICE: The DOJ may be releasing the list of Epstein's clients. Will that really happen?

VOICE: It's sitting on my desk right now, to review.

That's been a directive by President Trump. I'm reviewing that. I'm reviewing JFK files. MLK files. That's all in the process of being reviewed, because that was done at the directive of the president from all of these agencies.

VOICE: So have you seen anything, that you said, oh, my gosh?

VOICE: Not yet.

VOICE: Okay. Well, we'll check back with you.

GLENN: Okay. So now let me take you back to Kash Patel. Because something similar was said to me. Here he is. Cut 12.

So who has Jeffrey Epstein's?

VOICE: Black book? FBI.

GLENN: But who?

VOICE: Oh, that's under direct control of the director of the FBI. Just like the manifesto from the Nashville school shooting. The Catholic school. We still haven't seen that, right?

It's not the Nashville police or PD saying, we don't want this out. The FBI airmailed into that operation and said, this is not getting out. Because they do that because this is another government gangster operation.

All these local law enforcement communities get funding from the DOJ and FBI from local programs. And if you don't cooperate, you're not getting your million dollars for this.

That's a lot of money from these local districts. That's how they play the game. That's why you don't have a black book.

GLENN: Because the black book, it's not just sitting. That's Hoover power times ten.

VOICE: And to me, that's a thing I think President Trump should run on. On day one, roll out the black book.

And not just that, on day one, all the text messages and communications we were told were deleted. On day one, play the rest of the video of the pipe bomber.

You know, he needs -- one of the reforms I talk about in government gangsters.

Is you need a central node to be continuously declassifying. This is another thing they do. They overclassify.

They are not telling you -- as a former number two in the IC, they overclassify 50 percent of the stuff there to protect the Deep State.

Oh, no.

You can't see that. Nothing to see here.

Gina was a master at it. Of doing it. And we haven't seen half of the Russiagate report we wrote. Still under lock and key.

On how the ICA was originally constructed. We went -- we put 10,000 man-hours against John Brennan's team that did it.

And we found out why they came up with their bogus conclusions. We couldn't sell it with the world.

Because we couldn't talk about it. And the government cancers came in and buried it.

All of these things, there needs to be a continuing central power whether it's the White House or off-site that says, every request that comes in.
Just right out the door. As long as it's not awe major threat to national security.

VOICE: Liz, they're both very clear.

It existed. But Pam Bondi did not say, she had any names in it.

She kind of made me feel like she hadn't really looked at it.

Kash Patel gave me the impression, he had seen it. Or at least he knew about it.

So how do we go from here?

VOICE: Yes. Listen.

People care deeply about the Epstein files because there was a grisly crime that we know for a fact that was committed.

Epstein was convicted of that.

It wasn't speculative. He was convicted of that. People feel that there's evidence of a cover-up. Not -- we're not inventing a conspiracy. There's evidence of a cover-up of this crime.

Pam Bondi as attorney general has exacerbated this trust. And it gives me no pleasure to say this. Because I like to give the benefit of the doubt to people that are on our side.

But going back to that day in the White House, this February. I haven't told this part of the story before.

Attorney General Pam Bondi, when we met with her. We weren't at the White House to meet with her. We just met with her while she was there.

Pam Bondi bragged to us about making that cover sheet on the binder, the one that read the most transparent administration in history.

She said, she had made it. She had printed it. She was proud of it. She placed it on that binder.

Glenn, to call that a severe lack of judgment would be the understatement of the year. There is no way, in my mind, and I've tried every way to Sunday, to square that behavior with the announcement that we got last night with the Department of Justice.

Pam Bondi told us at the time, she said, I've requested the Epstein files, the files in the binder, were the ones given to me. Nothing was in them, she told us at the time. Then a whistle-blower told her, she told us. And said the FDNY was hiding other files. That's the story she had told us, that there's been a Deep State cover-up. So at the time, after we were given these binders, we waited. Right? You give your side the benefit of the doubt. Maybe Pam Bondi will come up with the goods, even though the rollout was botched to say the least.

But she -- this is another thing I have not discussed publicly before. She said, she had not seen the FDNY documents at the time that she was telling us about them.

I asked her directly that day in the White House. When she said, a whistle-blower told us about these truckloads of FDNY documents. I said, have you seen them? She said no, she sent the request and they're brining them to her.

So contextualizing all of this, suddenly this seems like unforgivable behavior.

How could she give the American people -- not just me. I don't care about how this impacts me. How can she give the American people those binders that contain nothing, while at the same time, bragging about the cover sheet that she made.

The most transparent administration in history. And tell us that the FDNY had the real goods, that the binder was just proof of a Deep State cover-up. That was the real story she told us. Only now to say, sorry, there's actually nothing.

So it leaves us with this situation. What are the options? The options are, well, was she herself set up by some Deep State FBI officials trying to make a fool of her? It's possible, maybe even probable.

GLENN: Possible.

LIZ: But here's the thing, if you're smart, if you're savvy, if you're sharp enough to be Attorney General of the United States, you verify such information.

You don't assume its veracity and publicize it for clicks. And that's what she did.

So then we get to the point, that we think, okay. Well, what does this say about her judgment?

Is she just click thirsty? Is she wanting to be a Fox News star? Did she get out over her skis, trying to make news, being a mega champion with those binders, that maybe she had not verified the contents of, and she definitely hadn't verified the contents of the FDNY truckload. You can't square this announcement with the binders. With the binders in February, unless you allow for the idea that Pam Bondi could be operating in a way that is unacceptable, when on Fox News. Said she had a client list on her desk to review, when she hadn't looked at the documents.

And was just saying that to be a television star. I say this. In somewhat sorrowfully. If I'm President Trump, I would not tolerate this behavior anymore. She's become a liability to the administration. I think the administration is probably just now coming to the realization of how much goodwill this whole debacle has cost them with their voters.

And Pam Bondi is not worth it. She's a liability. It's time to move on.

RADIO

The INCREDIBLE TRUE Story of Benjamin Franklin

Was Benjamin Franklin the greatest and most modern Founding Father? This July 4th week, “The Greatest American” author Mark Skousen joins Glenn Beck to tell the incredible and true story of Benjamin Franklin.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Dr. Mark Skousen, friend of the program, friend of mine. America's economist.

He is -- he has written a new book on the greatest American and the greatest American, he says is Ben Franklin. And I tend to agree with him. He's at least in the top five greatest Americans. Welcome to the program, Mark. How are you?

MARK: I'm doing well. We're out here in the Mediterranean Sea right now on a cruise, but isn't it great technology that even Ben Franklin would love?

GLENN: You know, I don't think people really understand the genius of Ben Franklin. I mean, there's this great article in the times of London.

I don't remember when. But he was going back to London. He was going to challenge the king.

And he was going back. And they said, don't let his boat come in to dock.

Because he's been working with electricity, and he has a ray gun, and he will vaporize, you know, all of London.

I mean, he was -- he was the Elon Musk of his day, but he was almost more magical, because people didn't understand it.

Back then. What did you find in writing this book about Ben Franklin, that you think most people just don't know?

MARK: Well, this is the thing. So when I wrote the greatest American, I thought to myself, everybody -- lots of books have been written on his biography.

So what I did was I came up with 80 chapters on how he is the most modern of all the Founders. And how he could talk about the modern issues of today, whether it's trade or taxes or inflation or war. Discrimination. Inequality.

I have a chapter on each one of these, in the greatest American.

And, you know, he was a Jack-of-all-trades.
And the master of all, on top of it!

So one of the things I thought would be really cool, if you put my book, on every coffee table in America, and people came in to visit, they would look at this book. And there might be an argument, as you say, as to who is the greatest American. Whether it's George Washington or Elon Musk, or what have you.

GLENN: Whatever.

MARK: When they see the picture of Ben Franklin, they sit there and nod their head. And say, wow. This is the guy I want to sit down with and talk to.

And have a beer with.

Because if you sat with some of the other Founders, they would get in an argument with you. Or they would refuse to answer the question. Or what have you.

But Franklin was willing to talk to a janitor, as well as the king of France. And that's pretty unique.

GLENN: Yeah. Yeah. He could.

He was an amazing guy. So tell me, in your research of him, you know, you always hear that, oh, Ben Franklin was a notorious womanizer, and everything else.

And he abandoned his wife. Deborah? Was that her name?

MARK: Yes. Deborah. That's correct.

GLENN: Did that -- what's true, or what's not true about that?

MARK: So he certainly was the most liberal-minded when it came to the sexual revolution.

That's why I say, he's the most modern of the Founders. Because he was not prudish like John and Abigail Adams, who thought he was a reprobate. And sinner. And not a churchgoer. And stuff like that.

GLENN: Right.

MARK: So, yes. He was -- the ladies loved him. And he loved the ladies.

There's no question about that, that he was a bit of a playboy. And, in fact, he even admits in his autobiography, of having an illegitimate child, William. But then he settled down. He married Deborah. And, yes, Deborah and him, they did separate because -- and it was really more her fault than his, because when he went to London as a London agent, she had extreme aversion to going out on this -- the seas. It was a dangerous time period.

So it's kind of like people don't like to fly on airplanes today. So they did grow apart. There's no question about that.

But they maintained their -- their love for each other.

And, as a matter of fact, when Franklin died, he's buried right next to Deborah. So I think that's an indication of their -- their love and so forth. But they were very different personalities. She was very focused on -- on more of the home issues. She was not a public intellectual.

She would not feel comfortable in the same conversations that Franklin would have with scientists.

And with public thinkers, and stuff like that. So they definitely differed in their personality.

GLENN: The -- the story about his son William is one of the saddest chapters.

I mean, you know, Thomas Paine kind of looked at him as a father figure. And he -- you know, Ben Franklin did have a son, William, as you said. And they -- they had a really bad falling out.

Can you quickly tell that story?

MARK: Yeah. So I have a chapter on that very issue. Because who were his enemies, and he did have a number of enemies, including John Adams, at one point. But in the case of William, he, Franklin, arranged for William to be the governor of New Jersey. And he maintained his loyalty. He was a loyalist. Billy was throughout the American Revolution!

And at the end of the American Revolution, or during the American Revolution, Franklin writes his son and he said, it's one thing to -- we can differ on various issues.

But when you actually raise money, raise armaments to attack me, this was beyond the pale.

This is not something that you should have done. And then at the end of his letter, he says, this is a disagreeable subject!

I drop it. So you can feel that emotion, that anger.

And, yes. He removed him from -- from his will.

So there -- there -- Franklin got along with almost everyone.

And I have a whole chapter on how to deal in the greatest American. How to deal with enemies and be how to make your enemies, your friends.

But this was one example where he just couldn't cross over and forgive him. For what the -- for what we had done.

GLENN: I don't think --

CHIP: Just like you are saying.

GLENN: I think I would have a hard time doing that too if my son was raising funds and military against me. It would be kind of hard to forgive.

Mark, thank you so much for your work. It's always good to talk to you.

The name of the book is by Mark Skousen. And it is called The Greatest American. It's all about Ben Franklin. If you don't know anything about Ben Franklin, you will fall in love with him. You will absolutely fall in love with him. Mark Skousen is the author. The name of the book again, The Greatest American.

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The INCREDIBLE TRUE Story of Benjamin Franklin

Transcript