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Ajit Pai, Chairman of the Federal Communications Commission (FCC), joined Glenn on radio to discuss the future of the internet and net neutrality. If a government regulator exists that Glenn likes, it's Ajit Pai, who stood alone in a hostile world at the FCC during the Obama administration. Pai favors light regulation to ensure consumers have a competitive choice and companies have a greater incentive to invest in the internet.
Enjoy the complimentary clip or read the transcript for details.
GLENN: The head of the FCC. The FCC chairman, Ajit Pai, now joins us.
Ajit, I don't know if you are aware of this at all, but we've been watching you for a while. I have -- I have no idea how you got by Obama. But we're glad you did.
AJIT: Thanks so much, Glenn. I really appreciate the kind words. And grateful to you for making time for me today.
GLENN: Oh, you bet. We have a lot of questions for you. And I want to talk to you about net neutrality. I want to talk to you about the cable industry and this cry of fake news and where you think we're going.
Let's start with probably net neutrality.
Net neutrality is -- is in some ways, a -- a nightmare and will limit people. In other ways, people will look at this and say, "Wait. I don't want my cable operator being able to pick and choose winners and slow down, you know, the speeds of YouTube, if they're trying to promote their own YouTube." Can you make the argument?
AJIT: Absolutely. I think the key point here is nothing about the internet was broken. From the dawn of the internet age in the 1990s until 2015, the internet economy in the United States was the envy of the world precisely because President Clinton and a Republican Congress agreed that instead of regulating the heck out of this new technology, we would let it develop and take targeted action as necessary.
And that's, I think, part of the reason why we saw the tremendous explosion and activity online. But in 2015, on the party-line vote, the FCC imposed these heavy-handed rules that were developed for Mondale, the telephone monopoly back in the 1930s.
And as a result, we've seen less investment in networks. We're seeing less competition than ever. And I think that's one of the things we want to address going further, is, you know, light-touch regulation I think is the best calibrated to make sure the consumers have more competitive choice, and the companies have a greater incentive to invest. And that's where we're heading.
GLENN: So how would you address -- I said this to Ray Kurzweil who is part of the Singularity University. Works for Google. And I said, "So, Ray, why wouldn't Google develop an algorithm that would find people who are using the search engine to create a bigger and better Google? Why wouldn't they just -- I mean, that's human nature to protect yourself. If somebody is coming -- you can piece together in advance, "Wait a minute. These people are looking to build a better Google." Why wouldn't you just shut them down? He said, "Oh, that would never happen because we're all good people." I don't necessarily subscribe to that theory.
But, you know, we are now in the internet age, playing devil's advocate, of these gigantic corporations that you're just not going to -- the little guy is not going to compete against Google. They're not going to compete against Apple. They're not -- you can't compete around Comcast.
AJIT: And the point I consistently made is we don't put our faith in people or in companies. What's that saying? If men were angels, no laws would be necessary.
GLENN: Right.
AJIT: Well, we have a system of laws, and interest in competition laws on one hand and consumer protection laws on the other. And those are administered by a -- say the Federal Trade Commission or Justice Department here in Washington, by state agencies across the country. So there's a whole framework of laws to protect against that kind of conduct.
What we don't need is the FCC preemptively micromanaging every single business in the United States, not just the big ones that you mentioned, but even the smaller companies that have told us we're holding back on investment now because of these heavy-handed investments.
GLENN: So we're talking to Ajit Pai, he's the chairman of the FCC. You know, as I look at the most hated services in America -- or service providers, it's your electric company, it's your insurance companies, it's your cable companies. Those are all the ones that are the most heavily regulated.
However, as somebody who has tried, without $200 million behind me, to break in and have a -- a groundswell -- a verified groundswell of -- of support behind me, these -- to break into cable is absolutely impossible if you are a voice that the companies want to block. You just can't do it. How do we balance that and make sure that, you know, the app system -- because that's why we -- that's why we're online. Okay. Well, good. We'll do it online. But how do we make sure that the app system isn't blocked now by a Comcast or an Apple, where you're just not going to get in and break through?
AJIT: That's a terrific question. And two different answers: Number one, the way you do it is by promoting more competition. You make sure that the barriers to entry, so to speak, are low. That people like you can express yourselves over a variety of different platforms. And number two, to the extent that that's a concern, remember that the people who are promoting this Title II regulation through the US government are not the friends of free speech and free expression. These groups are consistently saying that they want government control of the internet, not just for its own sake, but in order to regulate how speech and expression happens online.
GLENN: Right.
AJIT: And they've been very open about this throughout the years.
GLENN: But you can't -- as a person, I can't start my own cable company. It's all regulated. I can't start one.
AJIT: And that's why we've had a very aggressive agenda in the three months that I've been in the chairman's office to make sure that we enable more companies to make that decision, to enter the marketplace, removing some of the barriers that they found, in terms of the rules, and making it easier for them to raise capital and to enter these marketplaces. And we want the smaller companies that are getting squeezed by these regulations to finally enter the market and provide a competitive option.
GLENN: Good for you.
So help me out on this. Ted Koppel, who I have a lot of respect for, has done a lot of great journalism over his lifetime -- I was talking to him, and he was concerned about all this fake news. And I said, at the end of the day, go back to the revolutionary war, there was tons of fake news back then. We're just in a new situation. And we haven't found our way to balance it yet. But you got to trust the people.
And he immediately said, "I think that we need to start, you know, having a license for people to be on the internet and to present news. We have to verify those people who are online."
That's insane.
AJIT: I couldn't agree more. And I have a lot of respect for Ted Koppel's career. But, frankly, his comments are repugnant to the spirit and the letter of the First Amendment. In fact, that's the very reason why John Milton in 1644 wrote his great treaties on free expression, Areopagitica, where he said that, you know, look, the king has no business licensing people to allow them to speak. We -- the entire premise of western civilization is that you don't have a gatekeeper allowing you to speak only at the whim of the king. And that's the same here in the United States. The last thing I think we want is government -- sort of regulators like me deciding who speaks and who doesn't. That's the fantastic thing about the internet age, I think.
STU: Don't you think though, Glenn -- and Ajit Pai -- we're talking to the FCC chairman. You have this situation where it's not about what happened in 1644 or anything. It's about what's coming up on May 30th, which is season five of House of Cards.
JEFFY: Thank you. Thank you.
STU: People want their Netflix. They want it streamed. They don't want their evil cable company slowing it down. Is that something that needs to be regulated, or does the market actually work that stuff out?
AJIT: To me, the market works it out. The best evidence of that is the digital economy that we had, prior to 2015 when we imposed these rules.
Companies were not engaging in the blocking of lawful content. And to the extent that we have concerns about competition, the best way to get there is not by imposing these heavy-handed regulations that slow down infrastructure investment, especially by some of the smaller companies that would give you a competitive option. It's by making sure we have clear-cut rules of the road, that are market-friendly, that incentivize more companies to enter this space.
And so, you know, look, I'm all in favor of the government looking at any competitive problems as they pop up. Preemptively regulating, from the Fortune 500 companies, down to the tiny companies in Little Rock, Arkansas, is not the way to get there.
GLENN: I will tell you, Ajit, I look at this time period -- and I'd love to hear your point of view of this. I look at this time period of American history as a combination of the industrial revolution and heavy emphasis on Tesla and Edison, all in about a 20-year period. I mean, what's coming in -- in technology and communication has already been profound. But it's going to become even more profound.
And, you know, as a student of history -- and you obviously are one as well. When you look back at those days of Tesla and Edison, in many ways, Tesla was right. Edison was just good at playing the game with the government.
And he was a -- excuse my language, but a son of a bitch. And that's not French. That's English.
STU: Can we say that on the air, Mr. FCC Chairman?
GLENN: Oh, yes, I shouldn't have said that with the FCC chairman.
AJIT: I'll give you a pass, don't worry.
GLENN: Okay. Thank you.
PAT: You didn't think that one through. Did you?
GLENN: Yeah, I didn't think that one through. I forgot who we were talking to. Anyway, we never say things like that, by the way. Golly, gee, darn it. I'm sorry.
But we were pushed back because of the collusion with very powerful people like Edison and very powerful politicians. Do you see us -- how do you see what's coming our way?
AJIT: Boy, that's a great question.
I think the first thing is the empowerment of the citizen that the internet allows. It used to be that to do virtually anything, you had to work through some sort of gatekeeper. If you were buying a car, you had to go through a dealer. If you were wanting to stay in a place, you have to go book a room with a hotel.
And now, because of technology, you can do anything, basically by yourself. And that's an incredible amount of empowerment. But, on the other hand, we always have to guard against this instinct of essentially crony capitalism, the phenomenon that you talked about. And to that extent, I think what people need to understand is that heavy-handed regulation is actually the friend of bigger businesses and for those who believe in big government. Because -- the big companies are always going to have the armies of lawyers and accountants to comply with these regulations, to persuade government to do favors on this or that issue. It's the smaller companies that are disproportionately affected. And the second thing is that it's very seductive for a lot of people to think, "Well, the market just leaves consumers at the mercy of these wild and unpredictable forces." When in reality, the market has delivered more value for consumers than preemptive government regulation ever could.
I mean, the fact that we have billions of people who are emerging from poverty now is the result of free market policies. It's not because the governments of these various countries have suddenly decided to bestow largesse upon them. And so it's a case that we consistently have to make that crony capitalism and big government regulation, those are not the friends of the average consumer.
GLENN: So we have -- we have a situation now of fake news. And it's been around forever. But it's at epidemic proportions because the average person has access to everybody. And the average person, you know, unfortunately doesn't think things through and really read everything. They see a headline, they click on it, and they share it.
We have some really nefarious people, some of them in Russia, that are using our own technology against us, using our own freedoms against us. We have the press -- I told you about Ted Koppel. But we also have the president coming out and saying, you know, you're fake news. And maybe we should be able to sue you more.
Does the FCC have a role in the First Amendment in saying to all sides, "Knock it off. The freedom of the press is the freedom of the press, no matter if it's a printing press or the internet. Knock it off?"
AJIT: Well, I've consistently said -- and this goes back to my time as a commissioner up to five years ago, that one of the distinctive features of America is the fact that we have a First Amendment. It's unique in human history for the government to establish in its very founding papers the notion that anybody in this country has the ability to speak, anybody has the ability to write, anybody has the ability to worship as he or she sees fit.
And that's something that requires not just the cold parchment of the Constitution, but it requires a culture that admires that -- those freedoms. And so I've consistently spoken about -- about the need to preserve that culture of freedom for speech and free press. Because it's a slippery slope. Once you lose it, it's very hard to reclaim it.
GLENN: You have a 50 -- what is it? A 50 or 60 percent of so-called conservatives saying that there's a limit to freedom of the press. Is there?
AJIT: Well, the Constitution speaks for itself. And so long as I have the privilege of occupying this office, I'll keep defending that core constitutional freedom. It's one of the things that I think makes America a very unique place across time and across the world.
GLENN: So I think with that answer, I just have to end where I started: How the hell did you get past Barack Obama?
AJIT: That's a good question. I'm not sure how I slipped through the cracks.
GLENN: I don't know either.
AJIT: But maybe it's the -- sort of like the Forrest Gump of the Washington scene. Just kept gamboling on, and here I am.
(laughter)
GLENN: Yeah. Okay. Ajit Pai, thank you so much for talking to us.
PAT: Great.
GLENN: And keep up the good work.
AJIT: Thank you, sir. Thanks for having me on.
GLENN: You bet. Buh-bye.
PAT: And thanks for the shout-out to Areopagitica. That's -- I think that's a first.
JEFFY: Right.
GLENN: Oh, how many times have we talked about -- off the air --
PAT: All the time. All the time.
STU: Talked about all the time.
GLENN: Okay. You know what I love --
PAT: Talked about all the time. Milton's Areopagitica.
JEFFY: Right!
The Book of Enoch tells a story the Bible only hints at: A story of heavenly beings who descended to Earth, took human wives, created hybrid giants, and unleashed forbidden knowledge that corrupted the world before the Flood. Glenn Beck and researcher Timothy Alberino break down how the ancient Hebrew worldview explains the Watchers, the Nephilim, the origins of demigod myths, and why Peter and Jude referenced Enoch directly in the New Testament. From extraterrestrial terms in Scripture to the cosmic “family of God” and the divine rebellion that reshaped human history, this discussion reveals a forgotten narrative that once defined early Jewish and Christian theology. What really happened in the days of Noah, and why does it matter now?
Glenn Beck recently spoke with Cracker Barrel CEO Julie Masino about the company’s infamous attempt to change its logo, and he asked the question everyone has been wondering: Why wasn’t she fired?! Glenn previews his interview, which debuts Thursday, Nov. 20 at 6PM ET!
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: I was in Tennessee this weekend, and Saturday morning, I go to -- I think store number two for Cracker Barrel. And I met with the senior vice president and the CEO of Cracker Barrel. And we sat down, and we had an interview. And Julie, who has not done an interview since Good Morning America, kind of said, okay. No more interviews, because that didn't go well.
This was her first interview since then.
And, you know, it was weird. Because I got off. I got off the plane.
And, oh. Somebody on the plane said, "What are you doing here?"
And I said, "I'm going to go interview the CEO of -- of Cracker Barrel."
And the immediate response was, "Get her!"
I was like, "Wow. Okay. All right. Thank you."
I get into the car, and the Uber driver says to me, "What are you doing here?" And I said, "I'm going to meet with the person at Cracker Barrel."
"Boy, she really screwed her up. You hold her feet to the fire."
I mean, I've never -- I've never seen anything like that. And, you know, I started the interview with her, you know, honestly. And I said, look, I -- I -- I'm not here to get you. I'm not here to do anything, but ask questions that I think everybody in America wants to know.
Like, what the hell were you thinking?
And I asked her some -- asked her all of the really pointed questions. Rikki, the TV executive producer said, "There's no way. I know you. You're going to soften. There's no way."
And when I got up afterwards, she was like, "Wow. Okay. You didn't -- you really -- you really didn't soften. You know, you asked all of those questions."
Because I thought they were fair. And I told her, "Look, I hate conflict. I'm not here for conflict. I'm not here. I don't need to make a name for myself by giving you a hard time. I don't care about any of that. I just want to do my job and ask you, 'What happened here?'"
And I said, "So I'm going to ask you really uncomfortable questions." And she was prepared. And I think I finally broke through, and got the real answer in the end. I think I got the real answer.
STU: Hmm.
GLENN: And it came from one of the questions I asked was, I mean, are you surprised, you haven't been fired yet?
And her response was, all telling. All telling. It's a fascinating interview you should watch. It's going to happen, I think Thursday on the podcast.
STU: Because I'm mildly surprised that hasn't happened. You know, like just because -- not because -- I don't know. There's a lot of things she's been accused of and everything else.
But just like, when you have a situation like this, where you're trying a major change and you roll it out a specific way and it does not go well, you know, it's usually -- it's like, when you're general manager of a football team, you go through the process. You evaluate all the quarterbacks. You pick the guy.
And that guy is a total bust, like you usually don't survive it. It doesn't necessarily mean you went through the process incorrectly. But when you miss, usually something happens like that. Does she feel like she missed like that?
GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yes, she does.
She's a very bright woman. I mean, she ran Coach, you know, the purse place or whatever.
STU: The purse company.
GLENN: The Coach brand. Godiva Chocolates. Taco Bell, the whole -- global. (I mean, she's a Fortune 500 CEO. She's very, very competent. Very competent.
So how could somebody very, very competent make this mistake?
STU: Hmm. Did she walk you through that? How that happened?
GLENN: Uh-huh. Uh-huh. Yeah. She see.
And what's interesting is, they brought the senior vice president was also sitting there.
And he has been brought in since.
I mean, he had been there for 30, 35 years.
And really good guy. And he was one of the voices that was like, while that was happening, like, you guys. Hey, everybody upstairs. You shouldn't be doing this.
It's a bad idea. And so after they were like, "Hey. You know who was saying this? Let's bring him upstairs." And it was interesting to talk to him, because he's been long before she got there. So he kind of gave the view of, here's what happened before she got here! And here's where she came in.
And here's what happened.
And it's -- it's really fascinating.
I mean, if you want to hear the real story behind it.
And -- and also see somebody -- I mean, just wait until you hear her answer on -- I mean, it was so powerful and so honest. When I said, are you surprised you haven't been fired yet?
It was a fascinating answer.
STU: How many pancakes did you --
GLENN: Podcast on Thursday, I didn't eat any.
STU: You went to Cracker Barrel headquarters, and you ate zero pancakes?
GLENN: I didn't. I didn't. It was very difficult to not order the pancakes.
STU: You're the type of guy who gets pancakes by mistake. What do you mean you've got none?
GLENN: I was looking at my wife. My wife was sitting off to the side of the camera. And I'm looking at her. I'm like, she's so beautiful. And I eat pancakes, too many times.
STU: Uh-huh.
GLENN: And she's just -- she has to live with this, the pancake-wearing shoes. I'm not going to order the pancakes. The pancakes.
Democrats are trying yet again to tie President Trump to Jeffrey Epstein’s scandals. This time, they’ve highlighted that Epstein once referred to Trump as “the dog that hasn’t barked.” Is this proof that Trump is in the Epstein Files…or is it actually evidence that he was a whistleblower against Epstein? Glenn and Stu discuss…
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: Now, Jeffrey Epstein is back in the news today. Could we just for the love of Pete release everything that we have, so we can move on! From the Jeffrey Epstein thing.
Here's the answer: No.
Even if we release everything that we still have, this is going to go on for the rest of our lives.
It will always -- and probably, into our children's lives.
Do you know, Jeffrey Epstein and Donald Trump were the reason we never went to the moon.
It's going to happen!
It's just one of these conspiracy theories, that will never, ever go away.
Why?
Because no one was honest about it in the first place. Once you start to lie, you lie once -- once! If you're a very honest person, you will lie once. And then people are like, what? What?
Why would he lie about that? What is going on?
He's not like that. But if you're the United States governor government. You already have no credibility whatsoever!
Stop lying to the American people.
Just stop it. You know, I said something a minute ago. One of the reasons why you're hearing lies is because it works to the advantage of a Colour Revolution.
You know, there are reasons why people are lying to you. Some of it, they're just dirtbags and they're liars. Some of it, they're politicians, and so they're liars.
Some of it, however, a good deal of it is, we lie, because we know it causes damage to the credibility of this entire system.
We know it does damage to the culture of America, and we are here trying to destroy the culture of America because we want to try something new. And the only -- you won't vote for it. So the only way we can get America to change and do something entirely different, that they will never vote for, is just to cause chaos and disbelief in everything!
So as I said a minute ago, you know, it's not the news. Many times, it's a reflection of a plan! And when it comes to the Epstein thing, this is absolutely a plan. The way this thing has been played out. Democrats are completely against bringing anything out against Epstein.
They don't want to do anything about it. The media. Do you remember the ABC anchor that went into a commercial break. And she was like, you know what, I've got to tell you, Epstein. You know, we had the goods on him. Dead to rights.
Clinton. All of it.
And we were told, pull it.
Remember that.
Remember that, gang?
They pulled it at ABC. I think they fired the person who tried to -- who released that video.
Or tried to fire that person. I think they were working either at CBS or whatever. That person was in trouble for releasing that behind the scenes tape.
They had no intention of it. Now, everybody wants the Epstein tapes. Wait a minute. You didn't want them when Biden went in. And you could have said something, Democrats. And you could have released it all.
And, you know, it's funny. It is just so full of stuff about Donald Trump. Then why wouldn't they release just that?
Why wouldn't have the Democrats released anything in the Epstein file?
You're telling me, we've got to find something on them. Hey. I've got the Epstein files. Yeah, yeah. We've got to find something on it.
I have got some information here about Epstein. Him and Epstein, they were fooling around. Yeah, shut up for a second. Is there anything at all, that we can construe and manufacture about his banks?
I know!
He's got a vet signal between his bank and the Russian bank. I've got stuff about the Epstein.
Come on! If they had stuff about the Epstein, they would have gone to the stuff about the Epstein files.
They don't have anything, they don't have anything.
Now, let me speak directly to conservatives. They're not going to release anything about the Democrats, because they had the Epstein files.
Do you think that -- let's just say, I'm not even going to name names. Let's just say the most powerful people on the earth. The most powerful people with powerful connections, to government.
They knew their names were, you know, there on little, you know, guest books at the island, or whatever.
You don't think they called in some favors and said, "Hey, I need that -- can you remove that?"
You don't think that there were people that were like, "Hey. You know what, we'll remove that."
"We need $100 million from you, to help out on this campaign."
I mean, whatever it is, those names are gone too! They're gone! How do I know this?
Because the government is completely dishonest! That's how I know that.
But, anyway, now, Donald Trump.
STU: You don't think anything of interest would be in these files?
I mean, I think we've already seen some stuff of interest in the emails, no?
GLENN: Yeah, I think there are stuff of interest. I don't think there's going to be anyone at a very high level that is going to get -- that's going to be like, holy cow. Look, here's pictures with him with a 14-year-old girl!
That's not going to happen.
STU: Right. Somewhere that stuff, at least at the upper levels, not there.
Now, here's what is interesting: The timing of the release of a few documents last week. The Democrats released some documents.
And they released them, and at the same time, that Johnson were saying, by the way, we are going to expedite the releasing of everything.
So there's no reason to leak anything. But the Democrats decide to leak some stuff. They like a memo. And in that, oh, my gosh.
Look at what was said. What was said in that memo. Well, it was said, you know, the only dog that hasn't barked is Trump!
Well, what -- what did he mean by that?
He's keeping it quiet. All of these things. All of these innuendos and everything. Well, now we know, from the guy who wrote the book, all the president's meeting. Donald Trump and the making of a predator, that guy came out this weekend and said, no, no. That's not what he meant.
What did he mean?
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(music)
GLENN: So Barry Levine comes on. And he's on MSNBC this wreaked.
And he's asked, so tell me, I mean, we've seen this email between you and Epstein. What did he mean that the to go that hasn't barked is Trump. What do you think he's referring to?
Okay. What was he referring to?
I think Epstein is referring to the fact that he believed that Donald Trump talked to Michael rider who was the Palm Beach police chief in 2004. And began the first investigation into Jeffrey Epstein.
So, in other words, he was the whistle-blower!
Yeah. But he's got all kinds of stuff in his -- in Jeffrey Epstein's books.
He's the whistle-blower!
The one thing you don't do is blow the whistle, when you know you got fingerprints all over the dead body. And the handgun that killed him!
You know what, I think you could find that hand gun, in this alleyway. Your fingerprints are on it. Man, why would you blow the whistle?
The suspect, he said, I suspected that Jeffrey Epstein was saying, he was 75 percent there.
Believing that Trump might have been the whistle-blower at the time. He believed it's 75 percent.
Now, how do you release something.
I mean, if you think things will be released. That will get Donald Trump. Why would you release that?
Where after two days of it being out, the guy who was part of that email, who hates Donald Trump, is like, yeah.
That's not what it means. It means he was whistle blower. Jeez.
STU: That is interesting. And I will say, you know, it is -- amazing that that's what they released. And chose to release.
That's the same email, by the way, that you're mentioning. That they blacked out the name of Virginia Giuffre, which they did intentionally. Because she has said that he was nothing, but respectful. And was never with any of the girls at all.
In not only her book, but also in testimony, under oath.
And the other one, that they released, which said, Trump -- he says, of course, he knew about the girls, was the other big one that they released. Which they left the -- well, they didn't leave it out. They just hoped you didn't focus on the next part of the sentence, which he says, that of course, he knew about the girls, as he asked Ghislaine to stop. Which would indicate, even if he was aware of this, which I don't think this had anything to do with the sex stuff. I think this was about him taking them.
GLENN: No. It was about poaching his girls from Mar-a-Lago.
STU: Right.
GLENN: The employees. He knows that we're poaching these girls. It doesn't mean he knows what they're doing with them. Stop taking my employees!
Okay. Now, if you suspect he's the whistle-blower and he knew you were taking employees from him, you know, in retrospect, you know, looking at it later, you go, oh, man, he's the whistle-blower?
But he also knows about the girls.
He knows we were taking them.
Does he know what we were doing with the girls?
I mean, this does not hurt Donald Trump. It helps Donald Trump.
STU: What about the one they released from Jeffrey Epstein. Where he said, I've met some very bad people, and none are as bad as Trump.
I mean, what if they come up with bad comments from Jeffrey Dahmer about Donald Trump? What will you say then? I mean, this is so dumb.
GLENN: I've eaten some bad eggs in my life, but I would not eat Donald Trump. I'll tell you that right now.
Amazon’s House of David has become the #1 show on Prime Video, and today Glenn Beck talks with Michael Iskander, the actor bringing King David to life in one of the most powerful biblical series ever produced. Michael shares how fasting, prayer, and years of preparation shaped his performance, why David’s flaws and redemption resonate so deeply with viewers, and what really happened behind the scenes with Goliath, the sheep, and the shepherd who taught him lessons he’ll never forget.
Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors
GLENN: I've got somebody on, who is in just an amazing, amazing show from Amazon. House of David. If you haven't seen House of David yet, you have to. Do you remember when-like biblical movies. I mean, they were good in the '50s. And then they got really, really bad.
And then all through the '70s and '80s and 2000s. They were horrible.
And then all of a sudden, they got really, really good?
This someone amazing. This is as good as the Jesus. What is the Jesus one?
Chosen.
It's called House of David. It's on Amazon, and we have the guy who portrays David. Michael Iskander on with us.
Michael, how are you?
MICHAEL: I'm good. What an introduction. Thank you for that!
GLENN: I mean, it's really.
Come on. Was there any time, that you thought, oh, man. This might -- I hope they do it right!
And then you saw the finished product, and you were like, wow! This is good?
MICHAEL: Yeah. That was -- you know, I try to keep my head down, and, you know, it's -- it's not finished until it's finished.
And season two is coming out. You know, I'm just going to be hearing the response of how this show is really affecting people.
GLENN: So can I talk to you about Goliath?
Because Goliath is portrayed really as a giant. Not just a big guy. He's a giant.
MICHAEL: Yeah.
GLENN: Talk to me about that.
MICHAEL: Well, I'll tell you what, when I first met Martin.
He was -- I went to -- I went to the gym with him one time.
And I -- I knew, I'm going to get, you know, my stuff. So I was prepared for that.
And -- and he made me workout for two and a half hours. And I thought that the workout was done. And he was like, no. There's another half. And, man, he -- Martin is a really dedicated man. And he just -- he pushed me to the edge, when it came to working out.
And, you know, when it comes to his role with Goliath. He's someone that really just put all the effort, both physically and emotionally to really portray that part, as best as he can.
GLENN: How long did it take you to learn the slingshot?
MICHAEL: Three days. It wasn't too bad.
GLENN: Well, I heard you had problem with the sheep.
That the sheep were -- they were not helpful.
MICHAEL: The sheep -- well, the sheep were actually really interesting.
I remember when we first started filming, they -- they put me in sheep training classes.
Because when I get on tape. They have to make sure, that I'm not -- you know, I'm not going to get attacked by one of the sheep. And I'm comfortable around them.
The sheep. First day I show up to this training, and she painted me. And you would think that the guy who plays David, you know, would think of his sheep.
GLENN: No. I don't. I don't. I don't think that's natural. You're an actor. I don't know if that's -- yep, well, they picked me because I'm good with sheep.
MICHAEL: I should get classes from you.
GLENN: I don't know.
MICHAEL: But, no. I mean, it really -- spent a lot of time with the Shepherd.
And he was giving me some really amazing lessons.
He saw that I was having trouble.
And he said, you know, you should stick next to me. Because this sheep, when they see you with the shepherd, they'll know that you're with me.
So they'll never leave my side.
GLENN: It's amazing.
MICHAEL: I want you to spend a lot of time with me. And I he said, oh, okay. And he said, I want you to know another thing: A bad shepherd is a shepherd who is behind the flock. And so you, you're going to be a good shepherd. You're going to show them. You're not going to let them lead you.
You're going to lead them, and you're going to be in the front taking risks and showing them the path.
GLENN: Uh-huh.
MICHAEL: And he is saying this, I think -- I think I'm getting more than just a sheep lesson here. It really helped in terms of understanding who David was as a person. And then his relationship to Christ.
And why -- why David was chosen as king.
GLENN: Is it true that you fasted, before the audition? I mean, you're a Broadway guy.
MICHAEL: Yeah. Yeah. I sent in the first audition. I was really excited about it.
And it was a dream of mine for a long time. You know, one of these dreams, that you don't tell anyone. And you don't think it will ever happen.
GLENN: To play David specifically? Or to be --
MICHAEL: Yeah, to play David. To play David.
GLENN: Really?
MICHAEL: And because I was inspired by the Chosen.
And I wanted to maybe do flashback scenes with a young David, or something.
When I got the audition, and they originally said no. I thought, oh, that would have been a good opportunity.
GLENN: Hmm.
MICHAEL: And I got another audition. I called my mom. And I said, Mom, this doesn't happen often. Can you believe it? She said, Michael, calm down.
The one thing I need you to do. I need you to fast, and I need you to pray.
I said, yes, ma'am.
A week later, I was having lunch with Jon Erwin. And he -- it kind of took off from there.
But, yeah, fasting and prayer.
GLENN: You know, I'm friends with.
I went to school with Jim Caviezel. And I can't remember what grade he was in. Maybe fifth grade, I think. But he went into church, and all by himself.
And he prayed, and he made a pact with God. Let me -- all I want, Lord, is to play you in a movie some day, and I will live my life honorably to be able to be ready, but I want to play you.
And so he told me when Mel called, he was like, yeah, I've been waiting for the call. It's an amazing thing.
MICHAEL: Wow. I didn't know that story. That's beautiful.
GLENN: Yeah. What do you think it is about the story about -- this was the number one show -- number one series on -- on Amazon -- on Amazon Prime this year.
What is it about the series that you think is connecting?
MICHAEL: You know, I -- I think it's different for everybody.
But I'll tell you for me.
The reason why this show means a lot to me, is because, David points us to Christ.
And -- and David is -- is a person.
He to me, is the embodiment to what it means to be human.
And to make mistakes. And find forgiveness.
It's a complex, long story.
But he was a man that -- that -- he's known as the man after God's own heart.
So for people to see that example. To see, to see the man that God loved so much, that Jesus himself was -- son of David.
I think that's what -- they see the Holy Spirit in the show. I mean, that's what I see.
And that's who I do it for.
GLENN: It's -- it's -- it's amazing to me, how -- with the exception of one, the Bible -- every single hero is so deeply flawed.
And David is so good, so good, and then, you know, becomes really, really does one of the worst things I think I've ever read in the Bible. I mean, just really bad.
MICHAEL: Yeah.
GLENN: Are you going to play -- do you have any idea, assuming the ratings are there, how long of the story you're going to tell?
MICHAEL: I really don't know. I mean, we're just trying to get to season two right now in the release.
Hopefully, pray for us, that we can get to season three, and we can keep telling the story.
I don't know what Erwin and Gunn have. What they're picking up. But I pray that we tell as much of the story as possible. I think it's important to see both the good and the bad. Like you said, to see this flawed human being, to see someone make mistakes, and to see them get back up and repent.
And ask for forgiveness. And find grace in God. So we'll see!
Pray for us.
GLENN: You -- I read some place that you were a Broadway guy. And I thought, this career is not over yet.
I mean, are you prepared to always be David?
I mean, the guy who is playing Jesus now. Jim Caviezel said, it took years before he was allowed to play anything else.
And I can't remember the guy who was playing Jesus his whole life. He is Jesus to a lot of people. Are you prepared to this be you for the rest of your life now?
And not, you know, going -- going back and doing other things, if that's the way it is?
MICHAEL: You know what, God has taken me through so much in my life, that I'm sure he's going to get me through this.
And if I'm known as the guy who plays David, I think it's actually a blessing. And I don't know what God has in store, but I trust him.
GLENN: Yeah.
MICHAEL: When that time comes, I will worry about it then. But nor for now, I'm having a great time portraying one of my favorite people.
GLENN: I just have to ask you a personal question. One for me. My daughter wants to be on Broadway. Can you talk her out of it in 30 seconds, please?
MICHAEL: Oh, man, I don't know if I want to talk her out of it.
GLENN: Okay. Well, time for you to go now.
(laughter)
Michael, thank you so much, and we're looking forward -- when does it premiere? Is it this weekend? Is it out?
MICHAEL: Well, episode eight is out on Warner Project on Prime this Sunday. Yeah.
GLENN: Okay. Good. Good.
Well, we'll be watching. Thank you so much, Michael. I appreciate it.
MICHAEL: Thank you so much, Glenn. Have a good one. Take care.
GLENN: You bet. If you haven't seen the first season, you really should see it.
It's really, really good. It's one of those that I started watching, you know.
And I stopped because I was like, wait.
Tania, we should watch this together. And she came home. And so we started watching it, and I think we watched the whole season in one weekend.
It's one of those. It's really good. Season two premieres this Sunday.
