GLENNFebruary 27, 2017

Concessions of a Transgendered Wrestler

Texas high school wrestler Mack Beggs recently won the state championship --- the female state championship --- amid controversy that caused some competitors to forfeit rather than wrestle the junior from Trinity High School in Euless, Texas. Beggs, who is transitioning from a girl to a boy, has been taking regular doses of testosterone.

"Take the emotion and the politics out of the transgendered issue for a second, and we'll just talk about how ridiculous it is that a girl who is taking heavy amounts of testosterone --- for a girl, right? --- would be able to compete at all," Co-host Stu Burguiere said Monday on The Glenn Beck Program.

Many argue that the high levels of testosterone, which build strength and muscles, give Beggs an unfair advantage. Begging the question, if it's Beggs' choice to transition, shouldn't she make concessions during the interim to maintain a level playing field? Concessions like not wrestling until the transition is complete?

Enjoy the complimentary clip above or read the transcript below for details.

PAT: We've had this situation where there is a girl who is transitioning to a boy. And she's 17 years old. She's a wrestler. And so she wanted -- apparently, she wanted to wrestle in the boy's division this year, right?

JEFFY: Correct. Correct.

PAT: Because she's making that switch. So she's going from boy to girl.

STU: And the Texas rule is, you compete in the gender that you were born.

PAT: That's on your birth certificate.

STU: Yes.

PAT: Especially I guess as long as you have that genitalia, which she does. She's a girl.

STU: Yeah, I don't know -- if you've gone through the full transition, I don't know -- again, if you're talking about kids, this is a pretty new development. I don't know if they have a rule for that.

PAT: Yeah, I don't either.

STU: I think the rule is the gender you had when you were born.

JEFFY: Yes.

PAT: So that's the rule in Texas because it's hateful. How can you possibly ask somebody to compete in the gender category they were born into, how can you ask that?

STU: You can't, Pat. You can't.

PAT: You can't. Because what if you feel differently? Anyway, she does.

JEFFY: Yes.

PAT: But she was made to -- she was put in the girl's category for wrestling. So she just won the tournament last week.

JEFFY: Yeah, she won the championship.

PAT: She won the championship.

JEFFY: The -- one of the issues is, is that she is actually going through the transition and taking the prescribed medicine to make the change. And so it's working.

PAT: The testosterone.

STU: Right. And, by the way, this ends any argument of all time as to whether men or women are better athletes. Just -- because this whole thing of -- the old Billie Jean King thing back in the day. Let's be honest about it. You take testosterone, you become better and stronger at sports.

PAT: Right.

STU: Sorry.

PAT: Now, that is science. That is science.

JEFFY: That is science.

STU: So sorry. I guess we have to apologize for that.

PAT: Everybody knows it. Everybody knows it. You can -- I guess you can try to deny it and say that women are just as strong in every instance as men. It's just not the case.

STU: No, they're better at certain --

PAT: Yes. They're just not built the same way as we are. And that's a good thing. It was supposed to be that way. We're supposed to be different. And we are. And we are.

STU: Stunning. A stunning development that everyone knew at a level of 100 percent until very recently.

JEFFY: Right.

PAT: This is insane. And, by the way, if a man were to take testosterone in the -- in Major League Baseball or the NFL --

STU: I like how you're saying this as a crazy hypothetical.

PAT: I know.

STU: If in some circumstance somehow --

PAT: And they do.

STU: -- some at least decided to take performance enhancing drugs --

PAT: I don't remember who it was. But your testosterone as a man in the normal range is 400 to 800, maybe up to 1,000. And that's fairly normal. I can't remember who the baseball player was. It might have been A-Rod. He had a testosterone level -- and I shouldn't mention him because I don't remember who it was. But I remember their level was 4,000. So clearly they had been --

JEFFY: That's a man.

PAT: No man takes -- or has that much natural testosterone. So clearly, they had been taking testosterone, so they were better at what they were doing than they otherwise would have been. So it works on men as well as girls transitioning to men. So obviously, this girl is going to become stronger, she's going to be faster. She's going to be better able to wrestle than she was as a girl with no testosterone.

JEFFY: Right. And the argument also from the other parents that are suing the school board is that, hey, she is taking this medicine. That's making her into a boy. We don't want her wrestling.

PAT: And in Texas, you can take -- you can compete if you've been prescribed the testosterone by a doctor, and she was.

JEFFY: Correct. And there are several -- there are three or four other things on that list that the Wrestling Association says it's okay as long as it's prescribed and that would not be okay if it was not prescribed, for sure.

PAT: Wow.

STU: And the reason for that, by the way, quickly, steroids are like standard treatment for a lot of illnesses.

JEFFY: Yes.

PAT: Yes. Right.

STU: If you break out in a rash or if you have -- if you're sick in any number of ways.

PAT: Uh-huh.

STU: One of the first responses is to give you a shot of steroids because, you know, it works. It's pretty effective.

PAT: It reduces swelling, aids in healing. It just -- it calms down infection. I mean, it does a lot of different things. I've taken steroids quite a bit. Because I've been sick lately. And it helps. They help.

STU: A lot.

PAT: So it kind of makes sense that there are certain circumstances under which -- you know, because if you're taking anabolic steroids, that's one thing. But if you're taking steroids that a normal doctor would prescribe for an illness that's a different deal.

JEFFY: Which is pretty much what they were covering when they made the rules, before this.

PAT: Right. So, anyway, Stu heard this interview on the way in by Chris Cuomo. And is it the lawyer representing the other girls in the tournament?

STU: No, this is Ben Ferguson, who is a talk show host. He's a CNN contributor, so he's there to take the evil right-wing side of this argument. Chris Cuomo who purpose or it is I guess to be a journalist. I don't know that for a fact. But it seems like he wants to come off as evenhanded on the show is a straight-out activist on this show.

PAT: Yes.

STU: And the reason is because he's in the middle of his own personal issue with the transgendered argument, which is last week someone tweeted to him -- when talking about the transgendered issue, what do you tell a 12-year-old girl who doesn't want to see a man's unit in the locker room?

So a 12-year-old girl is in the locker room, someone changing next to them, takes down their pants and has a guy junk. Right? He's got guy junk.

What do you tell that 12-year-old girl? His response was, I wonder if she is the problem.

PAT: Good gosh.

STU: Or her overprotective and intolerant dad. Teach tolerance. That was his response.

PAT: That's unbelievable.

STU: Now, look, that's unbelievable, to put that on the 12-year-old girl.

PAT: Unbelievable response.

STU: A 12-year-old girl is not equipped to -- even if this were the most logical thing in the world, is not equipped to make that determination. She's going to be interested in what she's interested in at that age. That's going to be -- it's a moment -- it's an era of discovery, right. And so that is not something that you would necessarily want -- that's why they have separation.

Because honestly, with this standard, why bother with two different bathrooms? Why bother with two different locker rooms for any reason? Why bother? Why not just be tolerant of male genitalia all the time for 12-year-old girls? Why is it only when someone else outside of their decision-making process makes a decision they identify a different way. Right? Someone else has done that, that doesn't affect the 12-year-old girl in this scenario. She hasn't made any judgment, well, I identify that person as a female, therefore the junk that I'm looking at is not male. That's not her determination. It's someone else's determination. So that is -- it's an absurd argument on its face.

But he got so much heat for that tweet, blaming the 12-year-old girl and her intolerant dad of not being accepting of penises in the locker room, which is essentially what he said: You should be tolerant of the penis.

That was the word they used. He got so much heat for that. He's now in, I've locked myself in the corner, and I'm going to be defensive on this point no matter what. Which, it brings out the best in Chris Cuomo. Because he's now so desperate to prove that this wasn't a mistake, he'll say anything.

PAT: Yeah. Listen to this.

VOICE: What's your take on the tournament, my friend?

VOICE: Well, first off, I think this -- take the transgendered issue out of it for a second. If you are taking testosterone, which is a performance-enhancing drug in sports, you shouldn't be able to wrestle.

PAT: Correct. There you go.

VOICE: And this gave a completely unfair advantage to this participant. You can talk about that whether you are in your age-group or in your sex group that are associated with. If you're taking something that is performance enhancing, you're not a real champion. You cheated and you won.

Now, the state I think has some blame for this, by having it where they're even allowing these testosterones to be used if they're prescribed by a doctor. That's where I think the big fix probably needs to come.

STU: Stop for a second. Because this is -- so, first of all, this is his first response. Take the emotion and the politics out of the transgendered issue for a second. And we'll just talk about you how ridiculous it is that a girl who is taking heavy amounts of testosterone for a girl, right? Would be able to compete at all. So taking out the transgendered issue, it's still wrong. So he's already won the argument at this point, right?

JEFFY: Right. Right.

STU: But not with Chris Cuomo who can't possibly accept this.

CHRIS: If there was acceptance, we wouldn't have had this issue because this kid would be wrestling against boys.

PAT: Oh, good gosh.

STU: So here's his argument: So Chris, he falls back to --

PAT: If there were acceptance.

STU: I don't know what level we're going to fall back to on this. It's going to be hard to keep track of. But he falls back to, if there was -- if we taught acceptance, this wouldn't be an issue because she would be able to wrestle the boys like she wants to.

PAT: And in that eventuality, we wouldn't be talking about the story at all because she would have lost in the first round, and it would be over.

STU: Right. That's true.

PAT: It would be over.

STU: That's true. However -- however, we still would be talking about the issue. Why?

Because in a liberal state, let's say California, there would be a -- it would go the opposite way. You would have a boy who was transforming to be a girl and wanted to identify as a girl and then went into the girl's division and then destroyed all the girls. So the issue would still exist, it would just be in a liberal state and the opposite way. So he's completely wrong there to say the issue goes away if -- if we, quote, unquote, teach acceptance. The issue still exists, it's just on the opposite side.

VOICE: We know. And for those as you're learning about -- just so people know.

VOICE: Here's the thing.

VOICE: But hold on, Ben. Let's just clarify one thing: The science, you have to be careful about.

STU: This is argument two.

PAT: The science now.

VOICE: The amount of hormone that this kid is given is the minimum standard they can give to replicate the output of a boy.

STU: Okay. Stop. There's so much there.

JEFFY: Oh, my gosh.

PAT: Does he know the amount she's being given?

STU: First of all -- yes. So that was one of his big arguments in this. I assume he knows it because he quotes -- he kept saying, you have to look it up. You have to look it up. So, again, that's a bad assumption on my part.

PAT: Look it up, Jeffy. See how much testosterone --

STU: However, it's not the minimum amount that a girl would have, right? It's actually way more than a girl would have, which is what makes the transition happen.

PAT: Yes. Way more. It's the minimum amount for a boy.

STU: For a boy. Now, let's just say that that's true. So even if his argument is true, it's still cheating --

PAT: So even if his argument is true, it's still cheating.

STU: It still would be cheating as the girl. So his point is, well, then they should allow him -- her -- him to wrestle with the boys, right? Because he wants -- she identifies as a man. So we should think that she's a man. We should allow her to wrestle with the boys. Because she's not getting -- his point there is, he's not getting so much -- she's not getting so much more testosterone than the boy would normally have. So she's not a superhuman boy, she's just a boy, right? First of all, his wording is interesting there. The amount to replicate a boy.

If she's a boy, you do not need to replicate the boy.

If you're replicating something, you're replicating it because it's not actually happening. Therefore, your whole scientific argument is flawed. The thing that you're saying you want to happen isn't happening.

PAT: Yeah.

STU: She is not a boy. So if she was a boy, you would not need to replicate it.

PAT: Yeah, if you need to talk about science, what is she scientifically? She's a girl.

STU: She's a girl.

PAT: She's had no surgery. There's nothing been changed on her body. She's a girl. So if you want to talk science, she's a girl. And then -- so it's unfair for the girl to be getting testosterone, when the other girls aren't getting it.

STU: Right. Exactly. Now, his point seems to be, what he wants to happen is that she wrestles against the boys and then loses because she is getting only the appropriate level for a boy of testosterone.

Again, it's a ridiculous argument in and of itself. But if you're going -- even if you're going to entertain it, the point is, getting performance-enhancing drugs -- it's not to say that you let everyone come to the same level of testosterone. The point is, you don't get additional testosterone as to what you have naturally. That's the point of the rule. It's enhancing. Whether you think it's enhancing it only to equal, it's not the point. The point is, you don't enhance it to what you have naturally.

PAT: Uh-huh.

STU: She has very little naturally. And they're enhancing it to get a higher level, regardless of what level.

PAT: And all we're talking about here is -- the level of the other competitors is what we should be talking about, not the level of the boys.

STU: Yes. Right.

PAT: Because is it unfair for her to have beaten all these girls whose level of testosterone is ridiculous?

VOICE: Kids are going to be superhuman -- it's the opposite.

PAT: No, it's not the opposite.

VOICE: Scientifically, that is the outcome. If you look and do the research as I have, you'll see that.

STU: Oh, God.

PAT: What a condescending ass.

STU: Yes. Remember, this is a guy who is in full standing in the Douche Hall of Fame. And this is him showing off why he's there.

PAT: Exactly.

STU: And, by the way, on Pat and Stu today, a vote on Chris Cuomo as the Grand Nozzle after this interview. Because he deserves it from Harry Reid.

VOICE: If this state allowed this kid to wrestle against boys, which is what he wants, we wouldn't be talking about this case right now.

STU: Right. This case. You would be talking about a different case in a different state that went the opposite way. The issue would not go away at all based on that. You would just be arguing the opposite side of it.

PAT: True.

VOICE: But you also have to look at, there has to be a standard. And I think it's not insane or crazy for a state to say that you compete with the sex that's on your birth certificate. That's what I would refer to as logical. It is illogical to somehow imply that this kid is a victim because he decided to do something or change something and therefore you change the entire sport around it. That is the part that I think many people are sitting here and saying, "Hey, if you want to compete in a sport, period, then you cannot be taking performance-enhancing drugs and do it." But to say that we should change the entire way that sports is done because of one person and their decision to do something, that is unrealistic.

VOICE: Right.

But the premise is flawed. Because the logic requires --

STU: We got to come back. We're not going to have time to get it --

VOICE: I disagree. That's why we're having a discussion. That transgender doesn't count. But it does count, and that's why we're having this bigger debate about what you allow trans kids to have access to and what you don't.

PAT: He goes on to say that she identifies as a girl.

STU: Yeah, but we have to come back and play -- because that part is unbelievable as well.

PAT: Unbelievable.

STU: His scientific argument is that she identifies. Well, that's not science.

PAT: That's not science. Now you're talking feelings. You're not talking science.

STU: As you said, they're replicating it. She's identifying. You're laying it out -- subconsciously, you're saying the truth. You can't help yourself. You can't help yourself. You keep saying the truth.

PAT: I can identify as a gerbil, if I want to, but I'm not. I'm not one. And I won't fit into the little thing with the wheel that goes -- spins around and around. So...

STU: Right. And any other circumstance, this argument would be completely bizarre.

RADIO

“He was one of ours, and he was taken”: Megyn Kelly remembers Charlie Kirk

Glenn Beck and Megyn Kelly remember their friend, TPUSA founder Charlie Kirk, a day after he was assassinated at Utah Valley University. They also discuss the manhunt for the killer.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: Yesterday was such a surreal day. I was getting to record my special last night. It was in the afternoon. And I'm sitting here in my studio, and I look at the stairs through this glass door that I have here. And my wife is on the phone, and she's standing in the stairway.

And she has her, her hand gripping the stair rail. And I could see it in her eyes, she was on the phone. And I could see confusion, and I could see trouble.

And in my ear, I'm hearing, five, four, three -- and I said, "Stop. Stop. Stop. Stop. I need 30 seconds. I need to talk to my wife."

And I motioned for her to come in. And in a confused and dazed sort of way, she kind of stumbles into the room.

And I said, "What's happening, honey?"

And she said, "It's Cheyenne."

I didn't know what that meant. As a dad, you can imagine. I said, "Is she okay? What -- what's happening?"

She meant, it's Cheyenne on the phone.

Cheyenne had just gotten past the crush of the crowd. She called her mom. She said, "Charlie Kirk's just been shot."

"What?"

She sent me some video, and I knew it was true, but hoped for the best until a few minutes later somebody else sent me video that I hope you did not see, of the bullet striking him.

It must have been like what it was when you first saw the Zapruder film, or if you were standing in the Grassy Knoll. You just knew.

I was on with Megyn Kelly, and we were holding on to the hope that he was somehow or another going to survive that. And Megyn said at one point, I don't know why I'm not announcing what everybody else is announcing. But I just can't.

Megyn joins us now. Hi, Megyn.

MEGYN: Hi, Glenn.

GLENN: What a weird 24 hours it has been. Where are you this morning, in unraveling this knot in your head?

MEGYN: I still don't have my arms around it. I -- I don't feel like I've totally digested the fact that he's gone and the way in which he was taken. You know, Charlie truly was such a larger than life figure. We say that term. But it -- it was true about him. At six-five, he truly seemed larger than most of us. And he was, in his gifts, in his tirelessness. And just knowing exactly where the scene. Every story was.

And his raw courage. So many times. We like to think we're courageous in our commentary. You look at Charlie, and you think, now that's try courage. He -- he would just say it like it was.

The things you might be thinking in your head, but you might not want to say explicitly, he said. And he took a lot of slings and arrows for it and was demonized for being all the terrible things, as opposed to people taking him on and saying, "Does he have a point?"

GLENN: You know, I said earlier today, you don't kill the weak. People don't want to try to heal. They just want to speak in anger at times. And anger is part of the grieving process. And I know I'm angry.

But Charlie would face that anger. And what people think is weakness, by showing love and compassion and listening and just having a decent conversation, that's one of the reasons why he was killed. He wasn't -- he wasn't killed because he was weak. Just like Gandhi wasn't weak. He -- he -- he was killed because he was effective.

Megyn, where do we go from here?

She dropped. Can we get her back on the phone. I got an email from somebody today. This morning.

And I want to share the email. I won't share the name. It's short. But I -- I also think I should share the -- my response. Because I think it's how most of us feel.

It -- it comes from a very well-known conservative leader. Glenn, I am devastated this morning.

I am in deep mourning for Charlie. I am in mourning for his family and our country.

And I don't know how to surface from this. I don't know if I do either.

But I would like to share my thoughts with you, a little later on. Megyn is with me.

Megyn, how do we process this? How do we surface from this?

MEGYN: You know, I think as many lost -- we -- we all have to go through the denial and the bargaining. You know, I'm still refreshing my X account, like hoping somehow there's a reversal. You know, like somehow it was all wrong. Somehow we got it all wrong. You know, sometimes the media gets it wrong. It -- it's absurd. We know what the answer is.

But that's a natural reaction when you had a sudden loss in particular. And anger is completely appropriate now too. It's completely appropriate.

You know, we are going to catch this guy. You know, that FBI presser they just held which is very encouraging.

They -- and two things that happened this morning that are of note, Glenn. First, Steven Crowder who is very solid on his law enforcement leak reporting. He has -- he has a proven track history. He's the one that got the manifesto from the trans shooter in Nashville before anyone else. And that's not all.

He's had other leaks, posting a document saying he received from an ATF source on the investigation.

And that says that they retrieved the gun in the would see, behind the campus. Wrapped in a towel. And that there were three unspent cartridges in the gun. That had transgender and antifascist ideology. Something written on them.

Now, that piece of -- that last piece of it was not confirmed by the FBI at the presser they just held, but every other thing was.

The Crowder report was confirmed in every detail, including naming the kind of gun. He had that right. He had the location right. He had the trail and the tracking of the suspect right.

They did not volunteer the business about what was written on the cartridges, nor did anyone there ask. Because those reporters almost certainly don't follow Steven Crowder because those reporters will probably tell you, he's not to be trusted.

Now, this is an early report. And it could turn out to be wrong. But that's the update as far as we know it.

And the FBI revealing that they have a picture of him, that they did, of course, track him on his way to the shooting spot with surveillance cameras, of course, on these college campuses. We would expect that in dorms or class buildings.

And they appear confident. At least to me. That they've got the guy. And if they've got the weapon, Glenn. Well, they may or may not have fingerprints.

But they almost certainly have DNA. They almost certainly DNA, which I'm sure they're uploading right now, into every database, they can.

You know, within we saw -- they're not supposed to use the public databases. Sorry, private like 23andme or Ancestry.com. Though, in Culverter (phonetic), they did. And that is how they found Culverter. Sometimes they do.

And even just a public database of DNA. Can lead you at least to a family member somewhere near a shooter or suspect. And then it's just a matter of charts and a few hours in getting to that person's relative. So I believe they will find the shooter.

And then we'll know the ideology. And then we'll have a place to put some of the anger. Like, an explanation or something that will help us understand what deranged person. And I don't mean that in a clinical sense. Did this yesterday.

I just feel like, I don't know where to go, until I figure out who did this and why.

GLENN: It was about midnight last night, when I talked to the president.

And he was very clear, that we will find whoever is responsible for this. And justice will be served.

He was extraordinarily confident in that. Which gave me an awful lot of hope.

I don't know if you saw his speech last night, that he gave from the oval.

But I thought -- very powerful. Hit exactly the right tone.

Hit exactly the right tone.

But I think the days of us fooling around and nibbling at the edges. I think those days are over.

MEGYN: I agree. And one of the things that Trump said last night that was so good was, he used the word "terrorism." That's exactly right. You know, that's -- that is how a lot of us are feeling.

And I know you've had the same experience I've had in the last 24 hours, Glenn, where virtually everybody I know in the media business has reached out. I think there are a lot of folks who are in Arlene, in particular, in conservative media, who are very rattled by this because he was one of ours.

And he was taken. You know, he -- obviously, we all have concerns about personal security now with the shooter at loose. You know, at large as well. But I just mean that -- like the betrayal and the need to rise up and protect ours. And the people we value and love.

You know, this is like -- I don't want to say a call to arms. Because I'm not encouraging violence. But, I mean, a unifying call for us to stand shoulder to shoulder and stand up.

GLENN: Yeah. It is absolutely a wake-up call. To anybody who thought, you know, "Oh, it's just going to pass us by," it's not. This is -- this is the call of our age. And how we respond, is going to determine the future of freedom in this country. But I have great confidence that we will respond just as we did after 9/11.

We responded with conviction. We responded with an intelligence sort of way. We overreacted in some ways, that I would like to avoid this time.

But we came together as a nation, and did what had to be done.

For the preservation of our nation.

Now, if we can have the moderation lesson learned this time. Perhaps we will be good. But I think the days of Antifa not feeling any ramifications for their work and others, those days are over! As of yesterday.

Megyn -- I just -- go ahead.

MEGYN: Go ahead, Glenn. I was just going to say. One of the things we did after 9/11 was when the stock market opened two days later. We -- we all bought stocks. We just -- it could have been a 5-dollar to being. But everyone did it to send a message that the financial center would stand. And I think we are going to see a reaction on college campuses when it comes to free speech by conservatives unlike we've ever seen before. In a similar vein.

GLENN: I agree. I'm proud to stand shoulder to shoulder with you, Megyn. And be in the trenches with you all the time. You are a light in a lot of darkness. And I appreciate our years of friendship. And everything that you've done for the country. Thank you!

MEGYN: Likewise, my friend. Thanks for having me.

RADIO

“Our country has changed forever”: Charlie Kirk's BlazeTV friends reflect on his death

BlazeTV hosts Liz Wheeler, Steve Deace, and Allie Beth Stuckey join Glenn Beck to reflect on the assassination of their friend, Charlie Kirk. They also discuss where the conservative movement goes from here and what they believe the impact of his death will be.

Transcript

Below is a rush transcript that may contain errors

GLENN: I spoke to you yesterday. And we were both pretty raw at the time. How are you doing this morning?

LIZ: I -- I am in a fog of grief, Glenn. I think that a lot of us are -- it still feels very unbelievable what happened to our very dear friend, Charlie Kirk. I feel like I'm floating up outside of my body in a sense, watching all of this unfold.

It's quite something to see the reaction, from the American people over this assassination. I think you're correct when you say that our country has changed forever. I think this is one of the most significant -- not just political assassinations, but political events that we've experienced since the inception of our country.

And I think I've been praying about this, since you and I spoke for so long yesterday.

I've been thinking about this endlessly.

Obviously, on my knees, praying for sweet Erica and Charlie and Erica's two babies. But I think one of the things that's happened in the last 24 hours is people in our country, and I don't even want to say conservatives.

I don't want to say right-wingers because it's not just that, have realized that Charlie is so normal. He's not radical. He's not extreme.

He's not bombastic. He's not edgy. He's just a regular guy. And he's kind. And they killed him because of those beliefs and opinions, those principles and values, Glenn, that we share with him.

And you and I work in this industry, and you've written a lot of books about this political enemy that we face, and we talk about it a lot.

But for the majority of the American people, this is the first time, Glenn, that they're realizing, exactly who this political enemy that we face is.

And it's jarring, and it's gut-wrenching. Because they realize, that just as easily as they assassinated Charlie Kirk and are now dancing on his grave, they want to do that to us, too. (crying)

GLENN: Liz, I -- and I know you do. I have such faith in the Lord. And I know -- I don't know how our lives end.

I don't know how things work out. But I know everything that happens is used for his good. There is no way to thwart God's plan. You can make it -- you can make getting there harder. You can make getting there more painful.

But if we trust in him, great and glorious things are going to happen. Because of this.

LIZ: Charlie once said --

GLENN: Go ahead.

LIZ: Charlie once said, when someone asked him what he wanted to be known for the most -- and he wore a lot of hats, so he could have picked a lot of different accomplishments and identities. And he said he wanted to be known for his faith.

And that's -- it's so powerful. You and I are clinging to God right now. Everyone sitting here with us is clinging to God. I'm literally sitting here, gripping a rosary as we talk. Evil happens in our world, and we all ask that question, "Why? Why does God allow bad things to happen to good and innocent people?"

And, you know, as Father Mike Schmitz reminded us yesterday, "When evil happens, that is not God's perfect will. It is God's permissive will, which is very different."

God allowed Charlie's death to happen, but he did not want it to happen. God values human freedom and can bring about a greater good through these allowed events. But God does not allow evil. He uses it to achieve his higher purpose. When sometimes we don't know what that is, and I -- I'm human. I find it very difficult not to have an immediate answer to, "Okay. What is that higher good?"

But it could be testing faith or demonstrating compassion, teaching people how to uphold his perfect will of good.

And if God were to remove evil from the human existence, he would also be removing our free will to love him and to love others. And he knows that despite the evil that he allows to exist in the world, this greater good can be achieved for eternity, which is where Charlie is now.

And, Glenn, there are a lot of bad people online right now. You know, celebrating Charlie's death and saying how ironic it was, that Charlie was killed by a gun when he was a champion of gun rights. But you want to know what the real irony is? The real irony is that Charlie, at this moment in eternity, I guarantee you, Glenn, is praying for those who did this to him.

GLENN: You know, yesterday I said, "I think I might have done the hardest things I've done. I walked to the front gate, and I lowered my flag to half-mast for a dear friend."

And I think that is going to be easy compared to the forgiveness and the compassion and the restraint that is going to be required from all of us in the coming days. I think that's going to be very difficult. And I don't know how you do it, if you don't have God.

LIZ: I don't. I can't imagine moving forward without God. The Bible says, "He is my rock. He is my refuge."

And I can tell you, that that's the only thing that's helping me swim through this fog.

Charlie was such a good man, Glenn. Such a good man. You know, he once actually hired me -- this was a decade and a half ago. He hired me to work for Turning Point USA, but I wasn't going to -- my start date for starting that job wasn't going to be for, like, three months down the road because that's a new financial cycle. And in the interim after we had signed that contract, but before I had started, I got offered my first television job on OIN. And so I preemptively quit on Charlie.

And I remembered talking to him. And saying, "I know this is such a sucky move for me to preemptively quit on you after we had agreed. But, Charlie, what would you do?"

And he was so gracious, Glenn. He was so generous. He said, "You are -- you're going to kill it. You're going to -- you will use this platform to glorify God and save this country."

And he was always so encouraging. Yesterday, I was looking back at our text thread, because for as busy as this man was, he never neglected talking to his friends.

And during some of the most challenging moments in my public life, who was texting me encouragement, but Charlie Kirk? This -- it is hard to think about how to move forward, but one of the things -- and I know that it's hard to articulate clearly in this moment. But one of the things that I know with crystal clarity at this moment. Is we are not going to be silenced by an enemy who harms us.

We are not going to back down. We are not going to be quiet. We are going to honor Charlie's legacy. We are going to care for and love Charlie's families.

We are going to understand in a clearer sense exactly what we are up against. And it's going to -- with God on our side, it is going to lead us to victory, in a way that our country has not yet experienced. Because we do have this binary choice.

The left wants violence. The left wants Civil War.

The left wants to hurt us and kill us.

But what's going to happen instead, is these people in our country. People who are politically apathetic. Or lukewarm liberal. Or maybe right-wing, but not that active in politics, the same thing is going to happen as a result of Charlie's assassination. That happened after the Black Lives Matter riots.

Or after the COVID vaccine mandates. Where people realized that the other side does not want the best for us.

That the other side, during the Black Lives Matter riots, was willing to falsely accuse us of being racists when that wasn't true. Or during COVID, to tell us that we couldn't go to church and worship God. And we had to take their medical products because they said so, and they didn't care about the harm. Glenn, this is that, times one thousand!

People are now looking out across our country, realizing, that there are subversive forces. And not just a radical lunatic madman incident.

There are radical forces who want to kill us. And the awakening that is going to happen, the eye-opening, you are going to see churches filled with people turning to God. You are going to see politics, a swell of good people, who want to stand for normalcy, and common sense. Two million, 5 million, 10 million Charlie Kirks are going to be minted because of this!

And that's hard to picture in this moment, and there will be hard choices to make because we're angry right now and the left is taunting us, but I have so much faith. I have so much faith in what Charlie did and in the prayers that he is going to be bathing our country in now from eternity.

GLENN: I want to spend a few minutes with another friend of Charlie Kirk's and a good friend of our program and -- and mine. Steve Deace, who follows me on Blaze TV. Steve, I know it has been a hard 24 hours. How are you holding up?

STEVE: I'm pretty devastated. I think I have sobbed more, Glenn, in the last 18 hours than I probably did since the night of my own conversion.

GLENN: Hmm.

STEVE: I'm angry, as I know a lot of people are. And there will be a time, after we -- we need to mourn, first, Glenn. Because otherwise the anger will come out destructively. And it needs to come out, but constructively. And I think we have to mourn first. I think Charlie's legacy as a father, husband, friend, patriot merits that. And I think TP USA and his family need that.

In the not too distant future, we're going to have to get the message that was sent here. He was the best of us. We saw him behind the scenes or in public, genuinely kind, generous.

I -- I -- too many pastors and ministry leaders thought they were too good for Charlie and TP USA. Didn't want to get their hands dirty, and claimed they were being super friendly. And yet, he was the one that sought out the seekers. He went to the places that those nicer than God pastors didn't go to. And he took the bullet that, frankly, that's part of their calling. That they're supposed to take. And I hope in a good way, it shames some of them this morning. That they wake up and they realize, that they have slept on the job. And that's judge somebody like Charlie had to do their job for them.

And as Charlie, you know, named his own organization.

This is a turning point. We're never going back to the way things were before. What we do, next, will decide whether or not they are better. And as one of Charlie's biggest -- biggest supporters and donors texted me this morning, we can only pray that out of one, many will rise up.

GLENN: That's a guarantee. That is an absolute guarantee, that that is going to happen.
You know, when the tyrant is killed, his reign is over. When the martyr is killed, his reign has just begun. And make no mistake, for liberty, Charlie Kirk was a martyr. He was assassinated and martyred yesterday.

And -- and, you know, I -- I -- I -- I think -- I hope, that America -- I wish America could know him the way we knew him.

Because he was a -- he was such a generous man.

STEVE: Uh-huh.

GLENN: It didn't matter who you were, or what rank in life you were, if you needed help, he was there. And --

STEVE: Yep.

GLENN: No matter how busy he was, everything stopped.

And he would help you.

And I saw it in him over and over and over again. And I wish people could see that, because it -- you know, this cartoon character, where they're making him into this bomb thrower, he was anything, but.

I mean, he would have the greatest conversations with people. I mean, I could have done it. I couldn't do it. I couldn't sit through that nonsense. But he could!

And he could logically and peacefully have a great conversation, with people who despised him. And that was so important for the healing of our nation. And I really think that that's one of the reasons that he was killed, not just because he was effective at what he did, but because he was healing us. Something that is really vital to happen. He was healing all of those divides.

STEVE: I couldn't have said it better myself. And if you just look on social media and see so many people in our movement, who have such incredible -- people I don't know, people that don't know me, such incredible testimonies of everything you just said in their interactions with Charlie.

You know, we had a very divisive presidential primary. And to be honest, I didn't always handle it well. One of the first people I heard from when it was over was Charlie. And he texted me, and he said, "Don't give up. We need you."

He didn't have to do that, he won. And he's got the bigger platform. He's got the bigger show. He didn't have to do that. But that's the -- those are the kinds of things that leaders do.

And the void that is left here is massive. And at my lowest point I've ever had in my faith, the Lord said something to me, that will stay with me the rest of my life. And he said, "Steven" -- I'm sorry.

"Steven, I need apostles, not assassins."

And I want to share that with your audience because to win the fight that will come after this, that is what will be required. If you know me, this isn't about being a pansy. The apostles rebuke. But they don't seek revenge. The apostles confront. But they don't condemn. The apostles did something that Hannibal couldn't do.

No other civilization in the fertile crescent could do, they conquered the Roman empire. They set the stage for Western civilization. And they did not do it because they were passive, and they sit on the sidelines, and they were nicer than God. And they wear pleated khakis and Hawaiian shirts year around with sweater vests.

They did it because they got their hands dirty. They did it because they did the kinds of things we saw Charlie do: Build infrastructure.
Direct, lead, guide.

I mean, we would have to have a literal conclave, Glenn. And literally, everyone in our business and movement. And come up with divisions to do all the various things Charlie himself was leading and doing in that organization.

I told Charlie at dinner recently, "It's like, you were like, if Rush Limbaugh and the Heritage Foundation had a baby. This is what you and TP USA are."

And that's what it's going to take to fill that void. But I can't -- I'm sure with the size of your audience, my inbox -- my wife is going through it, as we speak, it is full of people. You were right. I have to get off the sidelines. I have to do something. My buddy Sloan over at TP USA texted me yesterday, he goes, "You know, I can't tell you how many pastors we're hearing from. They thought they were too pious for us. Too good for us.
And now the stakes have been raised. They're getting it."

And I'm just so sorry, that it took two little children and their -- and their mom's family away from them for two -- for more people to get the message. And I want to -- I want to specifically challenge my generation, Gen X, no more grunge. No more, we're too cool for school. No more, "Well, everything sucks. Nothing we can do." No more.

That was a 31-year-old man doing the work as a young father and husband, frankly it wasn't his time to do yet. He has other primary duties that he should have been given the benefit of devoting to as a husband father, but our generation has set on the sidelines for too long. We must lead. It is our children now that are grown, that are leaving the nest. We are the ones with the free time.

We are the ones with the discretionary income. It is our time now to leave, to stop bitching and complaining about boomers. And I say that to me more than anybody else.

And to stop looking around like we're still listening to Pearl Jam and Stone Temple Pilots and Sound Garden, and nothing is going to get better. It is time now to lead. This is our moment.

And we are the ones that are in a place to do this with the positions of our families and with our productivity and prosperity. We have to step to the forefront now.

GLENN: Such great good will come out of this, Allie.

I know this is a tough day for you, and thank you for joining me.

ALLIE: Yeah. God is in the business of redemption. He's in the business of thwarting Satan's schemes. He's in the business of bringing beauty out of the ashes. He's in the business of bringing glory to himself, and bringing people to himself.

And if Charlie had had the choice, if someone had been able to come to him and say, okay. This is what your death will accomplish, it will accomplish more people hearing the gospel, it will accomplish more people waking up, I know if Charlie had had that choice, he would have said yes. He would have said, "Yes, Lord, send me." And not only would he have, but he did.

He went into the lion's den, and now he is with the lion of Judah. Now he is with Jesus. And everyone is going to know who he was and why he lived and the gospel that motivated him. And that is the only thing right now that is giving me any hope or any peace or any comfort.

GLENN: I know that all I could think of yesterday was how glorious the greeting must have been on the other side. You know, good -- "Well, done, good and faithful servant."

ALLIE: Yes, absolutely.

And before any of us heard the news, before his sweet wife Erica got the phone call, he was already hearing those words. And I am so happy for him.

I'm so happy that he is with the saints and the martyrs and the persecuted through which the Church of Christ has been advanced for millennia. I'm so happy for him. I'm so sad for us. I'm so sad for us, having gained an incredible person. But we -- we lost a huge presence.

GLENN: That's how I know when people have faith. They don't weep for the dead.

They weep for the lost to themselves and to the world and to the families that are hurting.

They -- they mourn that loss on themselves. But they -- they -- when they think of the person who has died, they know exactly where they are.

ALLIE: Yeah.

GLENN: And with Charlie, I -- I -- I -- I mean, I knew him when he was 17, and he was a good kid, but what a change happened to him.

He -- he was on fire for Christ, on fire for that.

ALLIE: Yes. Absolutely. He grew into over the past five to ten years, such a theologically deep and apologetically astute man of God, as he became a husband, as he became a father, as he became even more of a warrior for truth, and that is really what -- that's what inspired me.

And when I heard the news yesterday, I thought, my thought was, that's it. I'm done. I'm throwing in the towel.

That is it for me. I'm not -- I'm not willing to do this anymore.

And then later after he died, I went through some of the texts that he had sent me over the years. He was always sending everyone. All of these friends. These very encouraging texts.

And he sent me this article from a liberal outlet, that of course, had taken some jabs at me. That had made me anxious. And he said, "Well done. Keep slugging."

And I just know that if he were here, that's exactly what he would say, not just to me, but to all of us.

He would say, "No. You can't get out now. You got to keep going. You got to keep going." That's exactly how he would feel, and that's exactly what he would tell all of us.

GLENN: I've received so many emails from people who have said, "I don't know how to get back up again."

ALLIE: Yeah.

GLENN: And I don't know what to tell them other than, faith in God. Faith in God.

ALLIE: Uh-huh.

GLENN: I think if our side, if you will -- boy, I hate that in this context, but if -- if we didn't have God, we would be very much like the left right now.

We would be mired in anger and -- and screaming for vengeance and it would be a really ugly place today.

ALLIE: Yes.

GLENN: If -- if we didn't have God.

ALLIE: Yes. And if Jesus wasn't raised from the dead, like if he wasn't resurrected, then we don't have a hope of a resurrection. If he didn't defeat death, then we can't defeat death. If Jesus didn't live forever, then we can't live forever.

And that's exactly what Charlie always preached. What he always posted on X. What he always said, if you were to be able to text him right now. And say, "Look, Charlie. I've got this really tough thing to talk about today. And I don't know how to say it. I don't know what to say. What are your thoughts on it? What should I say?" I know exactly what he would say, the one word he would text back, and that would be, "Jesus. Just tell them that. Just tell them that Jesus is the only way to fulfillment." That is what he would say. People may not realize that. Every time he went on a college campus, he wasn't just talking about capitalism or Donald Trump, and all those things are important. He shared the gospel.

GLENN: No.

ALLIE: He knew that every single person that walked in front of him, was made in the image of God with a soul that was going to live forever, in one of two places. He desperately wanted the people who hated him to go to heaven. And I just pray that I can have that same boldness for the rest of my life.

RADIO

Charlie Kirk’s Legacy: Courage in the Face of Hatred

Glenn Beck pays tribute to his dear friend Charlie Kirk following his tragic passing. With raw emotion and deep conviction, Glenn reflects on Charlie’s courage, faith, and unwavering commitment to truth in a world that often rewards lies. Drawing parallels to America’s founders, soldiers, and first responders, Glenn reminds us that Charlie’s life and legacy demand an answer to the question: “If not me, then who?” This episode is both a remembrance of Charlie’s extraordinary life and a call to action for all of us to stand firm in faith, defend truth, and carry forward the torch of courage that he so boldly bore.

Watch Glenn Beck's Full 3-Hour Radio Show from September 11, 2025 HERE

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Charlie Kirk’s Legacy: Courage in the Face of Hatred